I found it. The Ford script on headlight bezels is not centered on top because one of the four retaining rivets is top center. This really disappoints me. Anybody interested in a real deal in a '21 Touring?
Better check again on your lens/rim.
The top center rivet is under the script.
IF your lens scrip is off kilter, then maybe the headlamp post is bent off to one side, or worst, the rim isn't captured in the bucket and you could experience this:
I think Tommy was referring to the Ford script on the bezel, not the one on the lens. Because the rivet is at the very top of the bezel, the Ford script can't be at the very top also.
You are right Keith. I was prepping my headlight buckets and bezels for paint when I saw the Ford script on the bezel. My bezels don't match , but I don't care. One just has FORD and the other has FORD E&J Model 1156, I believe. I don't have a matching pair of lenses either. One is fluted and the other is plain glass. I think I will get another piece of plain glass cut locally, for temporary use and pick up another fluted lens later.
Tommy C. - So! Listen to this Dan Trace guy will ya'? He should criticize with all the "design flaws" in his radiator shell, right?
The "H" looks right, but the dumb thing says,..."dorF" and "POT" with a backwards "P"!
Just kidding of course guys,....maybe I've been "negatively influenced" by reading some of Burgers stuff, huh?
P.S. Seriously, this thread Tommy C. started tempts me to start one that I'm thinking could lead to an interesting discussion,.....
There are many details on Model T's that could very well be thought of as "design flaws", when in fact, many if no all of them are just a matter of "design priorities" that enabled Henry to be able to sell a reliable automobile for about half of what most other comparable cars sold for in those days:
For example, it would be easy to consider the lack of a drivers door a "design flaw", when even tho' Henry's explanation was that "it is unsafe for a driver to exit the car on the dangerous "traffic side" instead of the safer passenger side" However, as we, the more "learned" Model T "enthusiasts all know that ol' Henry was just saving money, right?
Another one is the two-petcock method of checking oil instead of a dipstick! A dipstick tells you "exactly" how low you are on oil level, but the upper and lower petcock method just tells you that if oil runs out of the lower petcock, you're "good to go", right? Might be just barely enough oil to drip out of the lower one, so you really don't know if in one more mile, you'll be low on oil! Design flaw? Well, maybe,....but two holes in the crankcase, tapped for Henry's already existing petcocks is a lot cheaper than tooling up for the dipstick design!
Anyway,....the "design flaw" thing is interesting Tommy,.....harold
Yep, this is what he means.
The Ford script is halfway between the side and top rivets.
Speaking of headlight bezels, we were speaking of headlight bezels, right? I find it odd that Ford used the four rivets & twist off & on design on the bezels. I think most other manufacturers had a tab fitting into a slot on top with a screw on the bottom. Wonder why.
Get the fluted lens not the flat glass one.
Flat or fluted depends on the year.
You mean there is only one design flaw? That makes me feel better.
I believe the plain glass were outlawed in about 1923, except for 6 inch diameter acetylene lights.
This is a page from Automobile Dealer and Repairer, January 1923.
The green visor lens came out in 21 and shortly after the "H" lens. I would not go by what NY state says for all I know may have been still using the green brake light. :>) LOL
My 1926 original bezels have Ford close to the back edge and Brown under it or close to the front edge.
Both have the same standard Ford script style.
The only design flaw I seem to see in a Model T is, when once you buy one of a certain design, you find yourself needing another design, and another...and then can't resist every chance to drive each one as often as possible. Heck, I'm even going out in 50 degree weather driving one of my many "design flaws" whence I used to sit huddled next to the fireplace! These designs are seriously flawed!! LOL
Tim, I agree 100%. Being at Hershey and not driving a T for a week I was starting to go through withdrawal. All is well now.
A little drift here but interesting. In my IOOF lodge we had a few guys in there 90's still somewhat active, in the early 1980's.Fascinating stories. One old guy was still incensed for being 'pinched'for having too bright headlight bulbs in some jurisdiction he was passing through. They 'fined hell out of me',he said. Worse yet they wouldn't let him go on till he paid the fine, and he had to stay until morning to pay the Justice of the Peace.
That headlamp rim that is stamped "Ford E&J 1156" is actually a brass rim for a 1915 Model T. It would be polished brass with a clear glass lens. If it is in good condition you should be able to make a trade for a black steel rim with a FORD H fluted glass lens included.
Touch a magnet to it to confirm that it is brass.
This is the one stamped FORD E&J 1156.
As I see it, the only design flaw with a Model T is the owner! As far as headlights go, as many years as I've been studying Model T's, I learned something new at Hershey, and this is on the on the above subject. The clips inside the headlight bezels were modified when the new style fluted lens appeared. Prior to that they had and entirely different looking clip. I wish I had a photo of one to post, but I do not. Perhaps RV would do this for me, as he is the one that taught me this. Thanks RV!
My two best bezels do have different retainers. I hope both will hold a fluted lens.
I have only one fluted lens but have another one ordered. The fluted lens might not be correct for my '21 but I like the looks of the fluted lens.
Actually Larry, I realize that you are a "stickler" for "originality", but I would think that you would admit that there actually were a few "design flaws". In fact, Henry even addressed a couple of them that come to mind; the 1913 body weakness that allowed touring car doors to pop open when there was enough weight in the back seat. and, the "new improved" Model T that came out in '26 had a number of "corrections" for "design flaws". I think one of the most obvious flaws was addressed by Henrys modification which consisted of actually bolting the top of the hogshead to the back of the engine block to make the power plant assembly more rigid.
Oh, and having not even a single fuse to protect the electrical wiring was a pretty serious oversight too!
I guess it all depends upon what you call a "design flaw", and what was just a product of more modern "engineering" as time went on,.....FWIW,......harold
Tommy, Dan's photo showing the fluted lens and the wide clip is for cars after the plain lens was deleted. On our Canadian sourced cars this was around the 1921 models. For the plain lens, it didn't matter if the lens rotated under the car's vibrations. This lens clip was basically a round with a small tab to bend over the glass.
So, a genuine 1915 rim will be brass, and will have the smaller round lens clip.
Allan from down under.