Can anyone recognize this carb? I need a part

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Can anyone recognize this carb? I need a part
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 04:45 pm:

Before going too far, I don't like the way this carb looks and have heard that the Holley Carbs are better anyway. Once I've got it running and a few bucks saved I'm probably going to get a H0lley NH which seems so highly regarded.

Meanwhile, after pulling the bulb, I found that the plastic float was broken. But I don't know what carb this is. There's a number stamped in it, 74-2178, but Google wasn't any help with that.

From beneath the car looking up.



From side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 04:49 pm:

I think they are a Kohler engine carb, check with your local mower shop.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 04:51 pm:

Lawnmower carburetor. Don't waste any effort on it. Surely someone on here will have a usable NH they will make you a deal on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 04:53 pm:

Lawnmower carb? Take the money you'd waste trying to make it work and put that toward an NH.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 05:24 pm:

Agree with Steve. Those lawn mower carbs are trouble.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 05:59 pm:

Like music to my ears actually. Hopefully you could tell by my post that I've been going back and forth on puling the trigger for the NH. I'm going to do it. If someone has a good deal on one, that would be great. Otherwise, I'll go the parts seller route.

Assuming I become the owner of an NH, is it a matter of physically swapping it out and then hitting the forum for specifics on adjusting?

Thanks all!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 07:15 pm:

Les Schubert has indicated he would like to get one of those Kohler carburetors to experiment with. You might give him a call.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 07:59 pm:

Ted - I'm sensing some inside sarcasm there...

Les - my future "ex-carb" is yours for the cost of shipping.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 08:30 pm:

Buying a rebuilt Holley NH. Any recommendations? Seems like center drain / side drain are options. Any other considerations? My engine s/n indicates Early October, 1924.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 08:37 pm:

I would go with the center drain strictly because I believe when you drain them the crud comes out more readily. Just an observation having used both. Unless you are building a show car, functionality comes first.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 11:10 pm:

If you aren't going stock I would recomend a T vaporizer intake

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331995310708?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STR K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

inverted then an adapter plate made (simple 3/8 steel works) to change the bolt pattern from horizontal to vertical then a stromgberg sidedraft.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-BARREL-STROMBERG-SIDEDRAFT-CARBURETOR-LB-1-539725-/201 513956329?hash=item2eeb2af3e9:m:mWEHW8rIS3VNMrIEQE3_L-w&vxp=mtr

Not this carb but you get the idea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 11:15 pm:

No sarcasm intended. I think he would like to have one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 11:19 pm:

As I said "not this carb" just shown as an example.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 09:25 am:

The carb is similar to an older New Holland example used with a small frame skid loader. The engine was a Kohler (K482, 532, 582, and 662) carb number (25-757-01) Check a company on line called Prime Line (Power Equipment Products) see http://www.primelinepe.com/parts-search/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 09:41 am:

I have one of those that came on my car when I got it. Will not work without a fuel pump or a tank pressurization pump! I replaced mine with a Kingston L-4 still looking for a holley but the performance is soooo much better with the Kingston vs that lawn mower carb I'm happy for now. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - West Melbourne Florida on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 10:25 am:

I sent you a PM on who not to buy your carb from. After I got done being screwed by that other carb guy I bought one of the new repro NH carburetors from Snyders. Regardless of what everyone says about the new repo NH carbs I've not had any trouble from mine. The car starts easy and has plenty of power.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 11:07 am:

The car is fitted with a fuel pump. If I went to the NH, would I remove the fuel pump?

My current direction is to find the right Holley NH. Either a rebuilt from one of the typical suppliers, or try to rebuild myself after finding a body.

Ted - sorry for the sarcasm comment. The thread started with comments about a " lawnmower carb - don't waste time" meaning that my current carb is just a gas smelling paper weight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 11:09 am:

Hi
I guess for the cost of postage it could be a interesting experiment to play with. The "wrinkle " is I live in Canada, so the postage gets expensive and I don't have access to the same cheap parts prices. When I was playing with air cleaners, the Briggs and Stratton element you can buy for about $8.00, cost me $35.00. I need to look for a new float to buy and get shipped to you, and then get it all mailed together. If that is not too much bother to you???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 11:19 am:

Charlie
The NH will likely not work well with a fuel pump, likely flood with out a fuel pressure regulator.
I'm going to guess that if you were suddenly having problems, it is related to modern "ethanol blended gas". Sea Foam is the best fuel treatment I've found. The best prevention is only buy premium gas and try to avoid the ethanol!!
Perhaps I would buy your fuel pump as well


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 12:08 pm:

Les - sent you a private message. I'll work on the float here myself. I have a couple local options that will probably work.

Ethanol is impossible to avoid here. I've got some Sea Foam and will make sure it's a constant with fill ups. The stuff is nasty. I used to have a small boat business and when the ethanol came along on the waterfront, it was eating up the fuel lines on some of the older boats. Current fuel line is ethanol proof - but just sad that it has to happen at all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 12:26 pm:

I agree with Les on the fuel pump. Many of the "upgrades" people inflict on their Fords are either superfluous and/or counterproductive, and I put fuel pumps in that category. The stock fuel system is fine as long as you remember this rule: Two gallons of fuel is plenty; one is not enough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 12:31 pm:

Question - as the early Ford carbs are neither aluminum or pot metal and the fuel line - if kept original - is not rubber or plastic - how is ethanol harmful?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 12:50 pm:

Ethanol will not hurt a stock Model t fuel system unless you leave your tank half full for long periods of time then you can develop corrosion but around here (Florida) non-ethanol gas is easy to find, just a trifle more expensive but you get better mileage :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 01:23 pm:

I was only referencing marine fuel lines. Just another unintended consequence of the ethanol panacea. What's a boat fire when the world can be saved.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 02:55 pm:

The problem with today's gas might be more alkali than ethanol according to a former boilermaker, Donnie Brown, who noticed how nasty the gas got when the refinerys started to use alkali in their crude refining process, about the same time as ethanol was added - and since the ethanol is more known among the general population, it's the ethanol that gets all the blame. See his posts in this thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/466716.html?1406945382

(I don't buy into the ethanol scare since I had to add ethanol to my gas during the 80's and 90's to avoid freeze problems with water in the gas during wintertime..)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Kirtley on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 03:04 pm:

Charley, PM me, I'll give you a good NH carb. You may have to replace adjusting needle. It came of a running car. Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 03:19 pm:

I've found that the Model T with a cast iron carburetor has no problems with E10 fuel, at least as far as corrosion or damage to the system.

E10 is a huge problem in my muscle cars, it eats aluminum Carter fuel pumps and cast zinc Holley carbs and ruins steel gas tanks. Adding stuff to the gas does not change anything, what I have found that fixes the problem is to use only 100LL avgas.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 03:52 pm:

Royce - why do you think it's the ethanol that eats your alu or zinc when there (according to Donnie Brown's testimony) can be alkali remains in modern gas that wasn't there back in the days of leaded gas? Maybe it's time to check the pump gas with a ph test strip for the pool :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 05:57 pm:

I have no idea what it is about ethanol that was destroying fuel lines. Rubber based fuel lines in boats. And not necessarily the lines installed somewhat before ethanol was introduced, but rather quite a bit older. This is for example, not actual, but I recall it was primarily a problem in boats made before the early / mid 80's.

The other thing you hear in the boat business about ethanol is that when the boat sits over winter, the ethanol somehow helps water separate out from the gas. In short term it goes back to solution. But after enough time, the separation is permanent. A lot of boat owners needing to drain their fuel tanks in the spring. One recommendation was to store the tank full leaving less room for condensation.

I recall from boating up the Florida coast a few years ago that the marine fuel docks all (or most all) advertised ethanol free fuel. Not so in Connecticut. What's mandatory for cars is mandatory for everyone.

I apologize in advance for inaccuracies. This is more a repeat of "stuff I heard."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 11:22 pm:

Texas T Parts sold those. I have one on a 1922 coupe, works very well. It has a large hole through the carb. It adjusts well, but you need the pump, and you don't have to worry about the last 3 gallon in the tank, and not making a hill, as it will use all the fuel.

It also starts better then a T Carb.

I use it with Glens over size Aluminum intake.

Got no complaints.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 12:02 am:

I managed to identify it as a Kohler / Walbro 1" Adjustable Carb. Kohler # 47 053 89. Amazon carries the replacement float.

Herm - you've put me in a quandary. I'm partway down the road of procuring an NH carb to replace this with. You've brought up a couple items that I wasn't aware of - Last 3 gallons and going uphill. How big a problem is that?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 02:44 am:

Do you live in a fairly level part of the State? If so, you have no worries about fuel feed. But, I am well aware your state has some steep grades. If you go touring in those areas, you'll have some additional things than gravity fuel flow to worry about.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 12:26 pm:

Herm - you've put me in a quandary. I'm partway down the road of procuring an NH carb to replace this with. You've brought up a couple items that I wasn't aware of - Last 3 gallons and going uphill. How big a problem is that?"END QUOTE"

Keep your tank full. A 26-27 matters not. Sure nothing wrong with an NH, for a T Carb.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 12:50 pm:

We were on a tour to Love Field several years ago with the Lone Star T club. We were going up a slight hill on Midway Rd near Northwest highway when a nice center door quit running right in the middle of an intersection. I got out and we pushed it into a parking lot to see what was wrong.

The guy who owned the car was fiddling under the back seat. I asked him if he had run out of gas. He says "I think my fuel pump went out". I said "Model T's don't have fuel pumps, that can't be it."

But it was.

I've never had a T with a fuel pump or a distributor or a water pump. Never broke down due to one of those things failing either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Kirtley on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 02:21 pm:

Charlie, give me a call. Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 04:19 pm:

Charlie,

With the fuel tank under the seat (or in the trunk on coupes) you can easily starve for fuel on steep hills with less than 2 or 3 gallons in the tank. Solutions - Never run low on fuel, back up the hill, pressurize the tank (manual pump), or add a fuel pump (electric or manual), or maybe even try the vintage technique of adding on a vacuum tank.

If you plan ahead, there is no problem. I ran my 25 touring for almost 30 years and only had fuel starvation issues 3 times that I can recall. Twice I got turned around and backed up the hill and once I got a gallon of gas from another tour member.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Australia. on Saturday, October 15, 2016 - 12:57 am:

Charlie,
Have a look at Texas T Parts.
They are selling, new, the same carb you're wanting to ditch.
http://www.texastparts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TTP&Product_C ode=T6200M&Category_Code=i
And praising it.
Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willard Revaz on Saturday, October 15, 2016 - 07:39 pm:

I have used that carb and got it to work without a pump by opening up the intake needle seat several thousandths. The bowl would run dry with restricted inflow. A friend uses one very successfully as proven by his dyno results of over 26 HP! Don't throw it out, fix it. Has an idle adjustment as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Saturday, October 15, 2016 - 07:53 pm:

Charlie, you also need to purchase the hot air pipe to funnel warm air through the carb or the carb will ice up, due to the venturi effect.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 11:14 pm:

i managed to find the replacement float on Amazon of all places. Thanks to google and a number stamped into the carb, I identified it as a particular Kohler model which was key to finding the float.

i put it back together. Is there supposed to be a needle attached to the float?

I still have other things to do on the car so didn't try to start it. But I did re-open the fuel line at the sediment bowl. A couple hours later I return to the garage and it smells a lot like gas. No gas on the floor beneath the carb, but a small drop of gas at the bottom of the bowl. I snugged the bolt holding the bowl up just a bit more, but am trying to be careful not to over tighten. Or should I tighten it right up to the post inside that it screws into? I'm also trying to find a new o-ring for between the bowl and the carb.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 11:20 pm:

A lot of those new small engine plastic float carbs have the needle attached with a springy wire clip. If not it still has to have a needle to shut off the gas. Looks like all the gas would have poured out almost immediately after opening the petcock.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Saturday, October 22, 2016 - 12:30 am:

Corey - Texas T's carries this carb. I suspect that's where it was originally purchased. I don't have a parts diagram, but have emailed TexasT's and stated my questions about the pin.

I'm planning to rebuild a Holley NH carb. I was planning to install that, but then there are comments on this board about some positive features of the modern carb. I'm conflicted. But if I can't get the modern carb working well, it's an easy decision.

A missing pin would explain a lot though. I hope it does have a pin that's no longer in my carb - assuming I can get a replacement part.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Monday, October 24, 2016 - 11:39 am:

The pin is definitely missing. In a past life, or a few months ago, when I knew a lot less about carbs, I suspect that I removed the bulb and broken float and somewhere in the mix the inlet needle attached to the float disappeared. That with a broken float would explain a lot of the flooding and fuel smell issues I've had.


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