Looking for Pictures of Original Schrader 777 stems, nuts, bridge washer, and dust cover

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Looking for Pictures of Original Schrader 777 stems, nuts, bridge washer, and dust cover
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 05:26 pm:

Just like the title says, what do the original valve stems and parts look like for a 1924 Ford? I bought some stem parts at Hershey and I'm trying to figure out if any of it is correct, thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 06:41 pm:

If Model A used the same stems and dust covers, there are pictures in the Victor Page' Model A manuals.I am not home or I would email them to you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 08:14 pm:

Why don't you post some photos of what you have and we'll let you know?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 08:40 pm:

Here you go Mark:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/640373.html

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/378972.html

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/287285.html




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 09:43 pm:

Thanks Royce! Looks like I screwed up, the parts I bought don't match the ones in Royce's pictures.

I'm on my tablet now, but tomorrow I'll post a picture of what I have so that folks can identify the pieces.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 08:21 am:

Mark the ones you are asking about should be roll stamped Schrader 777 on one side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 09:27 am:

Thanks again, Royce.

Here is a picture of what I bought at Hershey. The bottom four dust covers appear to be worn versions of the current reproductions that I have on my car.

The upper two dust covers are smaller in diameter at the bottom, and thread into the base nuts shown in the picture. Each of the base nuts has a hex shaped leather washer inside it (I removed one washer for the picture).

I didn't buy any stems, bridge washers, or clamping nuts because I couldn't find any Schrader 777 stems, all the stems I saw were either Dills or another number Schrader.

Is any of the hardware in my picture correct? Thanks. :-)

pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 09:51 am:

Mark that all looks like typical Schrader dust covers and nuts from the 1920's. Ford used several stamped brass / nickel plated dust covers. The ones in your photo are one of the common types seen.

There are Dill TR26 and other brand stems that are identical to the Schrader 777.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 09:52 am:

As an aside, I was looking through my 1925 Dyke's Automobile Encyclopedia and saw that it had a full size drawing of a Schrader 777 valve stem and hardware, here is a scan of the illustration. The dust cap in the illustration looks like the two small base ones in my photo above. The text also implies that the clamp disk and bridge washer are two separate pieces.

Note also the text about the Schrader 777 being applicable for 3 inch tires or smaller and the Schrader 725 being applicable for 3 1/2 inch tires and larger.

stem


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 10:10 am:

The stem in this photo is probably the longer version Mark. I think these are 3 1/2". The 777 works OK for either 30 X 3 or 30 X 3 1/2. The longer one is too long for 30 X 3 tires, it won't allow the dust cap to screw on with a valve cap installed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 10:24 am:

I've got dozens of original valve stems I've been collecting for years, and an article that Natalie has to print, but she wants some better photos than the ones I took. I'm not much of a camera guy. There are three companies that made valve stem hardware. Schrader, Dill and Bridgeport. They are all interchangeable, and use a weird size thread. The 777 stem is the one that Ford used, but I like the 888 which is 1/4" shorter. Why? Back in the day, people didn't travel at the speeds we do today, so BALANCE wasn't an issue. By using a shorter stem, it helps that problem.
There are at least four variations of bridge washers that I can think of, but it doesn't matter which one you use, they all do the same job. The later stamped ones were just cheaper to manufacture that's all. The dust covers with the knurl I'd guess were pretty much obsolete by the end of the brass era, and that is when the fluted covers come in. There are two lengths of those, and you want to get the short one. The brass rim nuts for the brass era were round, and had a straight knurl all the way around. After that the hex ones were used, and there are at least three variations on those, but they all do the same job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 10:35 am:

A word of caution. The current issue valve stems offered by Coker, and others are wrong! If you are interested in authenticity then don't buy them. Buy a rubber stem tube, and cut the rubber stems off, and install original valve stems that Royce pictured above. He also posted a thread awhile back on how to cut a rubber stem off, which is the same method I've been using for years. There is a company called A&L Parts Specialties that makes valve stems for Model A's. They have done it right, and there is no reason a big buck company like Coker can't do the same!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 12:43 pm:

Larry the metal stems currently offered by Coker Universal etc are the right ones for big cars like Peerless Packard and Pierce arrow for example. The tire size for that kind of stem would be 36" or larger.

Here is a comparison of an original stem for a 1915 Pierce 66 HP (left) compared to a 3" Dill stem for a smaller car like a Model T:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Saturday, October 15, 2016 - 10:58 am:

Royce, you are correct, but since this is a Model T forum, I only mentioned the T size. It's interesting to note, that the Pierce Arrow size that Royce posted is the size that is being supplied by Coker and the rest of them, and can't use the correct rim nut. I also have some NOS Dill fluted dust covers which are similar to the Schraders, but are slightly different. Hope the information posted above will be of use to the die hards


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Saturday, October 15, 2016 - 11:36 am:

TR designation stands for Tire and Rim Association. A 777 is a Schrader, and a VS-6 is a Dill. The TR number for these is TR-3. The TR-16 is a Schrader 888 and a Dill VS-74, which is 1/4" shorter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, October 15, 2016 - 01:04 pm:

By the way, if anyone needs the 1/4 inch shorter dust caps that go with the Schrader 888 stems, Tom Butterworth has some to offer, PM him.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Saturday, October 15, 2016 - 03:17 pm:

Per Mark's illustration from Dyke's posting above - item "S-T" clamp disc - anyone know what that is/was made from ? I've attempted to do the "stem swap thing" but never could get the tube to hold air at constant pressure - clearly I did not install such a part.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, October 15, 2016 - 03:58 pm:

See the end of this thread:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/640373.html?1462716215


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, October 15, 2016 - 05:37 pm:

The clamp disc, if a separate part, is made from steel. Often it is incorporated into the part marked "L" which is called the "valve spreader" in the illustration.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, October 15, 2016 - 07:53 pm:

Showed this discussion to my dad and we went through some of his valves.

The clamp disk is stamped from thin steel - it is not a thick solid piece like a washer. It is used with a bridge washer that does not have the embossed lip.

As Royce posted immediately above, the clamp disk is not needed when the bridge washer has the embossed lip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Saturday, October 15, 2016 - 09:58 pm:

There are three styles of bridge washers. The early style had a clamp disc, which is separate from the bridge washer, but still does the same job. Next came the bridge washer where the clamp disc was swaged to the bridge washer, and was no longer separate. Lastly the bridge washer was stamped to incorporate a bead, taking the place of the clamp disc. Both Schrader and Dill did this in the end. I don't have any Bridgeports to reference this to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, October 17, 2016 - 12:03 pm:

Thanks to all !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, October 17, 2016 - 04:22 pm:

Yes, thanks to all, this has been a great thread. Can't wait to get my original stem parts from Royce and Larry! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, October 19, 2016 - 01:27 pm:

Update - I got my stem parts from both Royce and Larry today, they match each other and the few parts that I got at Hershey, so I now have enough parts to make up five full, correct stem assemblies.

Thank you Royce and Larry! :-O


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