Starter removed and connected to jumper cables

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Starter removed and connected to jumper cables
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tt newbee Thomas R. Hicks Central Va. on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 10:39 pm:



When I connect this starter to a 6V battery with the jumper cables as shown, it should turn, right?

I get a few sparks from the cable when I make the connection, but the starter does not turn.

The starter does turn freely by hand.

I retried using the battery several times after turning the starter a little each time to make sure it is not just a bad spot in the commutator or brushes.

Notice the new terminal on the starter. The old one was lose and I had it professionally redone. It seems like those guys would have checked the starter to see if it worked.

So, this starter is not working properly, correct?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tt newbee Thomas R. Hicks Central Va. on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 10:40 pm:

Edit - Title should say "starter" not "staer".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 11:41 pm:

It looks scary if only to me as i remember starters can jump violently when powered up not held down?? Bud in Wheeler,Mi. Killing frost tonight!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 11:49 pm:

Better check the voltage your battery is putting out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 11:52 pm:

A 6 volt starter and battery need good cables.
The picture doesn't show enough of your cables to tell how heavy they are.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 01:03 am:

No load spin test, regular jumpers should be ok?
Could be the terminal is not soldered to the buss bar or the buss bar is not soldered to the field winding's or the brushes are hooked up wrong or the field winding's are fried or the armature is shot or...have the person that fixed it take a look or find someone else. It's kinda hard to diagnose a problem like this over the internet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tt newbee Thomas R. Hicks Central Va. on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 06:22 am:

Thank you for the suggestions and the PM.

The safety warning about locking down a starter before testing it is good and something I had not considered.

I retested this morning. The starter does not jump, or even turn. Just a few sparks when I connect it.

The battery is new and fully charged.

The jumper cables are heavy duty copper.

I will take it to a DIFFERENT rebuilder today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 07:23 am:

That terminal bolt needs to be pinned AND silver soldered inside the starter. If it's only one or the other it is prone to failure.

Also, be careful when tightening the nut down after putting on the battery cable. There's nothing to stop the terminal bolt from twisting along with your wrench. This will deform the inside buss. New bolts should come machined so you can hold the bolt steady with one wrench while tightening the nut with another wrench. It may not be original, but look at how crappy the original design is.

Regards,
Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 08:02 am:

If you apply power and all you get is sparks, there's an internal short somewhere. STOP APPLYING POWER! You could end up with field coils that look like this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tt newbee Thomas R. Hicks Central Va. on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 09:27 am:

I took the starter in to be rebuilt. Shop opens at 8:00, I got there at 8:30, no one was there. I asked the guy at the business next door and he said you never know when the starter repair shop will have someone there. He suggested I phone the number on the door.

I hate my cell phone and did not have it on me, so I could not call him. I try to support local businesses, but I am not going to deal with someone who does not hold regular hours.

I just called Lang's. The girl who answered the phone was polite, knowledgeable, and efficient. I should get the rebuilt starter early next week.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas elliott nw pa on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 06:23 pm:

A broken terminal was the very first thing I found when I had to remove starter for a new Bendix, I couldn't believe the starter was made this way! I carefully double nutted the post.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Friday, October 14, 2016 - 07:04 pm:

tt newbee,

You did the correct thing. If you ever begin to second guess your decision due to the cost - do yourself a favor, and DO NOT continue the second-guessing.

You will receive a good part that will work when installed.

I too, tried to support a "local" business - big mistake - yes, the owner knew generators..."modern" ones - made after 1960 or so. Was absolutely clueless about some device that used a 3rd brush. I spent much time and a few gallons of gas going back and forth from my T to his shop. Sure, the generator "bench tested" OK, but would not produce electricity when attached to the engine.

Again - you are to be commended - you "bit the bullet" and did yourself a GREAT favor.


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