26/27 steering box same size as previous years?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: 26/27 steering box same size as previous years?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, October 17, 2016 - 10:15 pm:

Creating a WWI light patrol vehicle with what I have as a donor project. 1915 rolling chassis with a 26/27 motor, front axle, rear axle and steering column.
I'm putting a wooden light express body on the rear and using a wooden firewall. I asked previousely on this forum if the column with the metal mounting plate on the column would fit on this wooden dash and the consensus was, yes, the dimension from the firewall to the mounting location on the frame would work.

But, after taking the ball arm and large grease cup off the steering box end of the shaft, it won't fit through the hole in the firewall. Do I have to dismantil the entire comumn and shaft into pieces, mount my column cover and flange and then reassembly the entire steering shaft?

I was told the 26/27 shaft had a different gear set up and was the preferred steering, so I'd like to keep it.

Or is there another way to skin this cat. I'm not off much, but I'd hate to have to cut the hole larger and then find another problem and have a big hole to try to cover up.

Anyone used a 26/27 shaft on a depot hack type wooden firewall?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Monday, October 17, 2016 - 10:24 pm:

The bracket that bolts to the framerail will not go through the round hole of a 'WTF or earlier style dash. I am confused. Are you using the '25 or earlier lower bracket?otherwise,a 26-7 column will fit any earlier chassis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Monday, October 17, 2016 - 10:26 pm:

All you have to do is remove the little spark advance lever at the bottom of the rod and pull the bracket off. Reassemble and bolt to frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Monday, October 17, 2016 - 10:27 pm:

Robert, you have to remove the pitman arm, the rivet holding the small spark advance lever/arm and the lever/arm itself. Then remove the lower steering post bracket that attaches to the frame. Stick the rest of the steering shaft and spark/throttle arms thru the hole in the firewall and then reassemble. Its easier to re-rivet the small spark advance arm back in place before bolting the column up to the frame and firewall. If its any consulation, that's how you have to do it on all firewalls, steel or wood, except the 26-27 firewall. Ford finally added a removable piece to the bottom of the 26-27 firewalls so the column could be installed as a unit. As a general rule, the square bottom 26-27 column will fit and work on 25 and earlier OK. But the 25 and earlier, round bottom column does not work well on a 26-27 firewall.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Monday, October 17, 2016 - 10:30 pm:

What you are calling the steering box is no more than a bracket. Cars used two general types-09-25 and 26-7.you must use the one for your frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Monday, October 17, 2016 - 10:32 pm:

And that should have been '25 fire wall, not WTF.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, October 18, 2016 - 02:08 am:

Just a clarification? Robert B may also be referring to the gear box just below the steering wheel. The some '25s/'26/'27 gear box is the 5 to 1 as opposed to the earlier 4 to 1 ratio steering, which is preferred by many model T owners. While the earlier ratio and late ratio gear boxes are very close to alike, there is a slight difference in the gear cut inside itself. SOMETIMES the other gears (sun and planet) along with the required matching steering shaft and properly spaced pins can be used in an incorrect gear case. Sometimes they don't work well. It seems to have much to do with how worn the gear case is.

Robert, If you are wanting to use the late ratio gear box? You could put your gear box onto an earlier column. Or you could actually use the late column, it fits fairly close to the same. Except of course as mentioned by others, the bottom bracket for a '26/'27 is different in its angles, so you should change it to the correct earlier car chassis one regardless (with only minor detail changes, the same bracket works on all car chassis from about 1912 through '25 model year). Do that as you install the column into the firewall and carefully check the fit of all parts as you assemble everything.
Good luck!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Tuesday, October 18, 2016 - 08:26 am:

Fantastic. Now I have a direction. Although my frame has been id as a 1915, most of the parts I am restoring came off it. The front motor mount has been replaced with the correct one for the 26/7 engine and this steering column came off it along with a 26/27 cowl and gas tank. I did remember removing a separate mounting flange from the hood side of the cowl for this column.

I'm trying to slide this entire column through my 1915 repo wooden firewall and it's not going. Now that I know that the little pivot arm for the timing adjustment rod is the culprit, I will remove it and try before I paint everything and get it ready for reassembly.
The box I was referring to, incorrectly, is just the bracket. I thought there was some sort of screw gear or something that needed the large grease cup, so I was referring to it as a gear box. Not the gears located under the screw cap near the steering wheel itself.

TO THE GARAGE!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Saggese on Tuesday, October 18, 2016 - 06:35 pm:

I have been going through this process recently as well. The spark adjustment lever is pinned to the shaft, a dremel with a small cutoff wheel can help to get the pin down flush with the lever. Then support the other side of the lever as you drive a small punch into the lever to knock out the pin.

I was able to re-pin my lever using steel dowel from my local hardware store. I heated it orange-red with a small torch to soften it, then peened both ends over the lever.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Tuesday, October 18, 2016 - 06:41 pm:

Robert, it may also be necessary to braze the little lever on the rod to keep it from wiggling when you're all finished.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Wednesday, October 19, 2016 - 09:45 am:

Robert: There is another way. 13-14 wooden fire walls had a cut in them to make it easy to remove the column. I know you have trouble with pictures, but someone could post you a pic that shows the cut. My NOS 13 firewall is hung on the wall and I can not get to it for a pic. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Wednesday, October 19, 2016 - 07:13 pm:

I GOT TO GET THE DANG THING OFF FIRST!!

Bubba had a bent nail run through the hole to hold it in place. I removed the nail, but can't budge the clip off the rod. It may be brazed on by Bubba. So I need to break out the dremel and my wifes eyes and see if I can get it off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, October 19, 2016 - 07:29 pm:

Clean up the little stub of the lead rod that is below the lever. Clamp vice grips around lead rod. Another pair over spark lever. Twist back and forth gently. Should come off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 04:51 am:

DON'T braze the lever to the rod! That will make VERY hard to get off if needed in the future. There are several ways to keep it tight on the rod. JMHO Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 11:48 pm:

Bob, I sound like Bubba.
I used a nail to hold that little arm on the spark adjustment rod on my 18 roadster. Twice. Once before installing the column and the second time after putting the column thru the hole in the firewall after taking the bracket off so it would go thru.
The drilled hole alignment is terrible on mine.
Jim's notion sounds good to me. A vise grip on that little arm and another on the rod and gently twist.
A propane torch to heat the parts may work really nice also if it's stuck on the rod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Saturday, October 22, 2016 - 12:04 am:

Duey, you are indeed a man after my own heart. I have used a little nail or a Brad in that position numerous times. might have cut it off to look 'good'. Might not of, too. No one should disparage the way people used to do things in order to keep a T running under what may have been circumstances of extreme poverty.
T Fords ran under conditions that no other contemporary vehicle could have approached. The fact that they could be repaired with harness leather, nails and bailing wire is the highest compliment you can pay to the basic design.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Saturday, October 22, 2016 - 12:11 am:

And, this is why I get so pissed off by the people that think a Model T is some sort of high art. The car was intended for 'the least of us'. Anybody that insists on Pierce Arrow standards should get into Pierce Arrows.


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