Last weekend we had a Model A group visit our Ford Farm. One of the cars was a very original 50,000 mile 31 Victoria. The body itself was still original paint and it had an all original interior. Also, interesting was the selling dealers decal on the dash. They were still using the winged pyramid. I wonder how long dealers used it, until their supply ran out? Seems like the supply would have been long gone by 1931.
I don't have the answer but the other day I went in my favorite taco place and snapped this picture. I took a double take because at a glance, it looked like the Ford logo.
Wha Wha Wha.
My first impression is that the "originality" is fake. Too many clues suggest a repaint with decal and sticker added later.
Maybe it was a dealer demo but who leaves a water-slide decal on the dash of a high-end car to wrinkle and flake off? The car would have to have been stored in a climate controlled area all it's life. But the wear on the dash doesn't indicate this. The service sticker also looks fake--Well used but still "new". And it's placed over a paint chip. Next is the paint chipping around the door. Modern primer/Bondo is showing through.
Just my opinion.
Stephen -- you might be correct. But I would think looking at the vehicle and having some additional history on it would make it clear one way or the other. I would suspect the car could easily obtain a Preservation class award if it is that original.
Ref the Genesee Motor Vehicle Co. Ford Dealership 1931 Rochester, NY. In a photo of the Genesse Ford Dealership – at: http://media.democratandchronicle.com/retrofitting-rochester/genesee-motor-vehic le-company I do not see any “Winged Pyramid” in the windows. (Neat photo with a before and current view of the building as well as some history on the dealership.) And since the touring car in the window still appears to have the two-man top and straight windshield– it would be the 1922 model year or earlier. And the lack of side lamps would make it 1919 or later so mid 1919 to 1922 model year.
At the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/43200.html?1198364628 Eric Hylen shared some information he had located using Google. The Winged Pyramid was introduced in 1912 and continued as a cooperate symbol until late 1917.
So they must have had a lot of those dealer decals ordered to still have them around in 1930-31 even though the main company stopped using the symbol around late 1916.
Hap l9l5 cut off
Nice A model but it looks like the things identified above are true after going back and looking at the paint around the sticker on the door jamb. Tim
I dunno, I see some details on that Vicky that most restorations get wrong, wish there was an outside pic, and more details of the woodgraining.
That winged pyramid was done by a dealer, and not by Ford. So that explains why it's on a Model A. I believe Ford stopped using that symbol by 1918.
Ah, the other photos showed up (dial-up is sloooow!). I agree, finish is too good, bumpers are not chromed in the same manner that they were originally done, and the close up of the door sticker, shows the finish on the woodgraining--it's close, but not the Ford factory finish. Pr0obably restored a decade ago, very accurately, but not a true survivor--the upholstery may be original though.
I didn't look this car over very good as we had many people here. I'm going by what the owner of the Victoria told me. The hood and fenders were painted. The top has been replaced. He didn't say this but looking at the pictures it appears the drivers side door may have been painted. What you're thinking is bondo appears to me to be a hunk of wax. As far as the decal in the door-jam, tough to say. Door jam has been painted, but looks like the sticker may have been on there when they worked on it, as the edges of the sticker are not pristine. It also looks to me like the wood grain part of the dash has been redone. The dashboard itself has not been repainted. In the close up of the below picture, you can see where pieces of the decal are gone. The paint is greener and shinier than the rest of the dash, so it's been there awhile. It has been in the Model A hobby a long time,as the 65 National Model A meet decal shows. It is a car that has been taken care of.
Thanks Hap for the Wing information, and finding the picture of the dealership. That was really neat.
Well, that would explain the things I noticed. The lacquer finish the factory applied, if not worn through or subjected to weathering can be polished to look very presentable (until you polish through it!) So, it's possible. . . .
There used to be a '41 Che**y coupe in this area with only some 43K miles on it--extremely nice car, amazing preservation.
Dave, the paint is worn through under the rear window. I have a 28 Phaeton, but I am not into A's like I am in T's and Ford V8's. That being said I can't swear to the originality of the interior, but the wear on it looks about right for a well taken care of 50,000 mile car, it is in very good condition.
I think it's legitimate. As someone said above, these were dealer-applied decals, plaques, plates. They were also designed by the dealer, purchased in bulk and used until supplies were exhausted. I have a pretty fair collection of the metal dealer plaques from around the globe. One or two have both the winged pyramid AND say "Lincoln Ford Fordson." Ford didn't buy Lincoln until 4 years after the pyramid was dropped, but that didn't stop this dealer from keeping it on his logo. There's an antique shop near me that has a1928 calendar from a long-closed local Ford dealership. The pictures on the calendar feature Model Ts - leading one to believe the calendars were ordered the year before (most likely prior to May). My point is, dealerships bought things like this in bulk and were not going to dump in a wastebasket something simply because Ford changed a logo (or even a car); they were going to use what they had paid for up.
I think the sticker is legitimate.
We used to have a '31 Deluxe Coupe that had been painted over, but the original was under most of the spots, especially the gas tank, and the striping on this car looks exactly like the striping that was on our gas tank. Only the deluxe models had striping on the tanks.
I found lots of clues on Ford's painting procedures on that car. It was originally maroon with black moldings and upper body. The black was obviously applied by having the doors left at the first latch, you could see light overspray on the door inside edges from the black (inside body surfaces were all maroon), the header over the windshield (which must have been put on after painting)was black on the outside, but the bottom edge showed a rough line where the black paint was not sprayed over the bottom lip, leaving the inside maroon.
But I'm getting way far away from Ts here.
I agree, other than some touch up, like repainting the dash rail, the car certainly could be a low mileage cream-puff that was garage kept-- actually 50K is not low mileage for the time period. My two-owner '30 sport coupe has a little more mileage than that, but was left outside most of it's life, and for 12 years after the original owner died. The snow didn't help any!
But now that I'm older, there would have been many paint clues under the 4 coats of other paints that were on it. I sanded it all off. . . . after checking to see what colors it was originally (Kewanee and Elkpoint green, as it is now). I think that Vicky is also the same color scheme.
Any Model A is just a lame excuse for not pushing hard enough to get (or talk about) a Model T.
Youze guys are degrading this site.
I don't know about the winged pyramid, but the Ford dealer I buy form, Roy Obrien, in Saint Clair Shores, MI, still uses the Model A era blue oval on all their letterhead. The oval being more "fat" than the current stretched looking version.
My A friends think I'm a back-slider; they just don't understand how much fun Ts are!!
I had a Model A once. Actually a AA woody U.S. Mail truck.
Not sure what I was thinking, but 40 years later I have no use for them. Too new,
too much effort to make a basic car appear to be something more.
I like the bare bones humble simplicity of the Model T. No lipstick, just the pig.