Looks like a fresh 1917 T with equal length windshield hinges and smooth front tires - white with a black wear surface.
Portage tires, daisy tread. Does that mean they leave a nice little chain of daisies in the mud?
Allan from down under.
Portage tire, Daisy Tread!
Why would you say he's a small dealer, he looks to be about average height to me.
Thanks for posting.
Yes, as you pointed out the equal length windshield brackets (used 1915 into 1917) along with the black radiator indicate a 1917. And when we add that it also has the later style windshield bracket (continued through 1922 production) holding the windshield to the body that are no longer riveted to the windshield frame that puts it around the Mar - Apr 1917 time frame.
From: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc17.htm it has:
----- Acc. 575, Box 14, #826, Ford Archives
Riveted style windshield frame and brackets were used in 1915 and 1916 and on the first 450,000 1917 cars. (Until about April 1917.)
MAR 14, 1917 Acc. 78, Ford Archives
Mention of new style windshield mounting brackets as having been used, and of the discontinuance of the 1915-16 style for replacement.
Lots of good details. Note it clearly shows the bracket that attaches the windshield to the body. That is often hidden by the side lamps in other photos. But also note that to me it doesn't look like normal screw heads or normal bolt heads holding the windshield to the bracket.
That may just be reflections from the new pain? But from the posting Clayton Swanson put on the classified site (no longer there? but it was at:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/3487/516350.html?1423247929 his rusty car appears to have a similar screw/bolt/? head. His car appears to have been an original unrestored complete touring. Below is a photo of the windshield bracket. It has some sort of extra bracket but the bottom screw/bolt/? appears very similar to the photo above.
Anyone have a part number and/or description of what type of screw/bolt/? those are? I am used to seeing regular screw heads in that location. But since the car is on the dealer show room in the fist picture Herb posted -- I suspect it may have come from the factory that way.
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Perhaps they are acorn nuts?
Well after a little more research acorn nuts (cap nuts) weren't invented until 1921 so if the car is a 1917 then they are not acorn nuts.
Hap, could you zero in the valve stem and dust cover? I don't know how to do that stuff. It would be nice to see what they used in 1917!
A little grainy, but try this:
Larry, the picture is likely already resized to be able to post here - can't expand it without it getting fuzzy, but maybe Herb has access to it in a better resolution?
Anyway, here's the valve stem - and the headlamp with the adjusting screw at the top. Hard to see if the connector was L-shaped or straight?
Look where the adjustment screw is located on the headlight bucket.
Maybe I'm squinting too hard, but it looks like the stem has a hex base nut and a smooth (not fluted) dust cover with a knurled section about 1/3 of the way up from the base.
So there was no "dash" at all in the non starter cars? It's been several years since I sold my '15 but this interior looks very open without that panel in it.
Looks like this dealer is a little light in the parts department.
Notice how the angle of the windshield straps seems to be different side to side; also, notice how far apart the tacks are on the driver's side panel.
If someone ordered an accessory speedometer, some of the companies sold them with a wooden dash to fit the Model T. But from the assembly line in 1917, 18 etc. they did not have a dash to block your view of the switch on the coil box on the non-starter cars. The starter cars had a dash to hold the new switch and amp meter. And during 1922 Ford USA did away with the switch on the coil box and all the cars starter or non-starter now had the switch on the dash. Non-starter cars had the headlight resister coil behind the block off plate where the amp meter went on the starter cars. Ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/C-D.htm#cb1
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The detailed photos of the dust cap seem to indicate that the early style with the knurl was still being used in 1917, but it's still very hard for me to tell. I noted too, the focusing screw on the headlight. I wonder when the change to the 9 o'clock position was made?
Larry, no date, but I suspect the change happened when they went to the dual filament bulbs. That was to orient the filament correctly. Need to go to Benson Ford to see.
And don't forget there almost always some over lap when both the old part and the new part were used. In this case the non-starter cars could have continued with the old style and no parts would be wasted.
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Just a follow up to my question about what type of screw/bolt/? was used to fasten the windshield to the lower windshield bracket. I contacted Clayton who had sold his 1921 to Bernie. They sent me some addition photos below that answered the question of what screw/bolt/? was in the photos.
Below are the two photos that prompted my question:
Clayton contacted Bernie who supplied the photos below. The body was removed and the rear view mirror was removed, but it clearly shows the bracket had a normal screw and not something special or different.
So why would I think there might be something other than a normal screw? Good question.
Below is a photo from page 11 of the Jul-Aug 1979 Vintage Ford (also shown on page 253 of Bruce McCalley's "Model T Ford"). From page 11 Bruce commented:
"The 1917 Ford as it appeared in an early Ford photograph. Careful examination of the original photo shows a number of interesting features (which may not be too clear in this reproduction). The windshield has the new lower mounting bracket but the lower frame is held by
hex-headed bolts instead of the usual slotted screws."
I wondered if the Mar-Apr 1917ish car in the dealer show room might have used something other than the standard slotted screw we are used to seeing. The answer appears to be "NO." It is just the way the photo came out at the lower resolution.
Hap l9l5 cut off (always looking for additional clues about our early Fords)
The one thing I might add o your comments on windshield screws is that the same slotted head screws were used on the windshield of 1915 and 1916 open cars. However in 1915-16 the screws were brass plated. Sometime around the model year change in 1916 the brass plating was eliminated, and the screws were raven finished instead.
For some reason the brass plating of the windshield screws used on the 1915-16 open cars did not last long. The way to identify if the were originally brass plated is by taking the screws out and looking at the threads. Often times the threads will show the remains of the brass plating when the screw heads do not.
It also appears, that the dust covers on the valve stems were still knurled, which I have suspected. I agree with Trent on the brass plating of screws. I have noted brass plating on the underside of the screw heads.