Timing gear question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Timing gear question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Benedict, Humboldt, TN on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 05:46 pm:

This past winter I decided to improve my 26 engine's performance. I took a real nice steel timing gear and re-drilled it for the 7.5 deg advance. I removed a perfectly good and quiet fiber gear. I did not change out the original crank gear. The engine noise now coming from the timing gears is unacceptable for my driving. What is the consensus as to the best and quietest cam gear. I see the vendors offer aluminum, nylon and bronze. I can re-drill any of them for the 7.5 deg advance. Would I be wrong in considering using the original fiber gear. It sure was quiet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 05:50 pm:

How does the engine perform with the 7.5 degree advance? I am considering this with the Stipe 280 in my Fordor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Benedict, Humboldt, TN on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 06:02 pm:

One of the best improvements I made. It seems to make me adjust the spark more often when it comes to hills but you can actually feel the power increase when adjusted. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom 30 miles N of Memphis TN on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 06:06 pm:

To be honest Bob, you'll have to change all three (gen gear to) to get it quiet. Try running the car with a blanking plate in place of the generator to see if the noise goes away. If so, your may need to add gaskets to get the gen gear lash correct.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Benedict, Humboldt, TN on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 06:10 pm:

I have a new alternator on the car. Would your idea about the blanking plate still apply?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 06:17 pm:

Any metal gear set will make a noise if they don't mesh right or if the play between them is too large.

If you change again it's best to change the crank shaft gear too, and that's a big job - you have to pull the engine and remove the pan.

I have a 7.5 degree advanced aluminum timing gear and I'm very satisfied - can't hear it @ my T pulls great up hills. Bronze may be even better, but costs more. Old Henry steel would be my third choice, but you've already tried that one. Wouldn't dare the soft material options, but if you aren't going to run a generator you may try the fiber again, just keep your full AAA membership and a cell phone when out driving :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 06:19 pm:

Saw you have an alternator. Same as a generator - an extra load on the timing gear with unsure mesh and play, hard to check..
Try run without it - it's easy to make a blanking plate if you haven't got one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 07:04 pm:

Bob, I have done some playing on this subject and have tried different gears from different vendors and the best I have found are DMC gears they are a little more money but they are both cut on the same machine and in my experiance they are the best out there. Dan will drill the gears for your advance if you ask him a head of time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 08:30 pm:

I can sell you another fiber gear real cheap. It will make your engine absolutely quiet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 08:37 pm:

So I will be the "Outlier" here. If your engine was built with a old fiber cam gear and by the lack of noise, it was obviously well meshed, then why not just re-drill it and bolt it back in place. Now this presupposes that you didn't wreck it removing it
I have got fiber cam gears in both my driver T's. One was built in '78 and one in 2000


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 09:08 pm:

Would this 7.5* gear set up be good in a distributor motor?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, October 20, 2016 - 09:30 pm:

The fiber gears are well known for what Steve shows in his picture. When that happens, you will stop suddenly wherever you are! Use a steel, aluminum or bronze gear. What the others have said is true. Replace all 3 gears if you want to be quiet.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 02:31 am:

Pat, it's the cam shaft that determines whether 7.5 degrees advance will be to your advantage or the opposite :-)

The idea with advancing the cam is to give the engine more power at mid rpm (800-1000) in hill climbing while the trade off is a little less top end at 1600 rpm and more. Often it helps with 7.5 degrees advance on worn stock cams and some reginds. Glen Chaffin says his more recent cams has that feature built in from start, so no advance needed on them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Benedict, Humboldt, TN on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 04:00 am:

Pat Kelly, I run a distributor in my car. Roger is correct with his statement above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Benedict, Humboldt, TN on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 04:05 am:

Anybody have an opinion on the new nylon gear verses the fiber gear? I don't want to remove my motor until next winter 2017 and looking for an easy fix until then when I will replace all gears.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom 30 miles N of Memphis TN on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 07:06 am:

The alternator may be "in" too far. Run it without and if the noise goes away it can then be made quiet with gaskets to shim it out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 08:39 am:

If the only choice is between fiber and nylon, then nylon. Given my experience I'm not a big fan of that either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 09:50 am:

Any of the timing gears - steel, aluminum or bronze - are quiet when in good shape and meshing properly. If you have a howling noise then you certainly need to figure out which one is causing the problem.

Try shimming the alternator first since that is the least trouble to deal with.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 11:10 am:

Winter 2017 is only a few months away. Why not continue driving with the noise until you pull the engine then replace all gears. If you notice more power with the existing gear drilled for advance, then purchase your new gear with the advance built in. Otherwise use a standard gear.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 11:13 am:

Added to the above suggestions If you use nylon gear, you still need to replace the other gears. Nylon is softer than the metal gears and I would advise against replacing with nylon unless the other gears are in perfect condition.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Benedict, Humboldt, TN on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 03:01 pm:

How is the alternator shimmed? Is it just a shimm between the face of it and the front cover that it bolts to or do I have to pull the front cover and shimm the cover out?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, October 21, 2016 - 05:47 pm:

See page 114 of the Ford Model T service manual (chapter VIII) for the shim location and procedure. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Benedict, Humboldt, TN on Sunday, October 23, 2016 - 07:52 am:

Well, I removed the alternator and drove the car. The noise seemed even louder this way. I guess I'll just put up with it this coming summer and change all gears next winter. This winter is dedicated to installing a Ruckstell. Retirement dollars only go so far. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Bob


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