Engines with generator and starter block off plates / castings

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Engines with generator and starter block off plates / castings
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Monday, October 24, 2016 - 08:25 am:

Looking for pictures of the casting and or plates that was used when a T was purchased without starter and generator. The generator seems to have two options.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Monday, October 24, 2016 - 08:43 am:

The starter has two--One front, one rear on the hogs head (transmission cover). The generator has one block off plate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, October 24, 2016 - 08:49 am:

From some time in 1919 when the supply of non generator blocks was exhausted, non starter cars got starter style engine blocks and flywheels with ring gears just like the starter cars - but the non starter cars had a special casting 3017-B instead of the generator bracket #3017:

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The starter and bendix holes were covered with simple cover plates from start.
Sometime in 1921-22 the special cast cover was discontinued and the non starter cars got the same generator bracket as the starter equipped cars - but with a simple cover plate 3017-D over the generator hole. This continued until the last non starter TT's produced in 1927. (non starter car production ended in 1926)

spares


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, October 24, 2016 - 09:04 pm:

Mark,

Corey Walker posted the photos below on the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/153324.html He was switching over from the generator bracket part #3017 that used a block of plate to the 1919-1921 style part 3017B that replaced that larger casting and used the earlier style non-starter engine front plate. See also: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/76066.html





Roger I believe that 1921 was when Ford USA stopped using the 3017B part and used the 3017 generator part on all the engines – starter and non-starter. Per the price list of parts the 3017B originally was substantially less expensive than the 3017 casting the generator was fitted into. But by 1921 the price of the 0317 generator casting had come down and the 3017B had gone up and now the larger casting was less expensive. (Note that does NOT agree with the 6th edition of the MTFCI Judging Guidelines. I will try to send a note to find out if the 7th edition still has the 3017 part used on the 1920 and later non-starter cars and only has the 3017B listed under the 1919 non-generator cars with the generator engine. Also listed that it might have the 3017 with the block off plate on a non-starter car. But I don’t think Ford would have put approximately an extra $2 (retail price of part) into a non-starter car if he didn’t have to.

Photo below is from page 27 or the Mar-Apr 1998 “Vintage Ford.” It shows an original bare bones non-starter 1925 Model T touring car engine with the 3017 generator bracket and the block off plate (the front of the engine used the revised wider front cylinder cover part number 3009C rather than the earlier 3009B that had been used before the generators were introduced).



The 1928 price list of parts show the 3009C was used 1919-1927 and the 3009B only up until 1919. But you cannot fit the 3009C to the block if the 3017B is used. So one or both of those dates are off.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Tuesday, October 25, 2016 - 08:42 am:

I have an extra one, if you need one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, October 25, 2016 - 10:47 am:

Block-off plates. Not a great photo, but you get the idea.


Starter (3383), Bendix (3382), Generator (3017-D).

This starter plate is the only one I have that isn't perfectly flat. I suspect it's the one for 26-27.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Tuesday, October 25, 2016 - 01:27 pm:

Never have seen a starter motor block-off plate that wasn't embossed - and I have a pretty good stack of them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, October 25, 2016 - 04:46 pm:

My non-starter 1919 is very original and it has the 3 flat plates that Steve pictured.


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