Four rebuilt coils

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Four rebuilt coils
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Heavner on Saturday, October 29, 2016 - 07:11 pm:

Wow!!! I just had Coilman Ron Patterson rebuild four coils. My runabout was hard to start and was running rough even after having the transmission and starter motor rebuilt and a new bendix gear. Now the T starts right up and runs smooth. It's like have a brand new Model T. One coil was so bad that he had to replace it. Another coil had been rebuilt, but was not done right. There is nothing like properly rebuilt coils for a smooth running Model T and Ron backs up his work. Thanks Ron!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Saturday, October 29, 2016 - 07:37 pm:

When I got my coils back from Ron it was like a completely different car. That's been a while but it's still doing great. I just got back from a little drive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, October 29, 2016 - 07:40 pm:

No doubt Ron does coils right!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Saturday, October 29, 2016 - 08:44 pm:

Rebuilt coils WILL help your car to get up and dance instead of just trudging along.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Weisgerber- Vancouver WA. on Saturday, October 29, 2016 - 10:27 pm:

I had the same experience this last August when I had Ron rebuild six coils, four for the car and two extras. Well worth the time, effort and money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, October 29, 2016 - 11:18 pm:


Ron did these for my 1915 roadster. As Royce says, he does them right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By harold Chambers on Sunday, October 30, 2016 - 08:11 am:

how can I get in touch with Ron?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, October 30, 2016 - 08:40 am:

modeltcoils
at
windstream
dot
net


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Heavner on Sunday, October 30, 2016 - 08:08 pm:

Also his ad is in The Vintage Ford magazine under Coilman. Ron's phone number is 859-881-1677.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Arnold on Sunday, October 30, 2016 - 09:55 pm:

You can do a great job of adjusting your coils yourself if you have an ECCT.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Sunday, October 30, 2016 - 10:10 pm:

Arnold, an ECCT, Strobospark, or a HCCT will all make it easy for you to adjust your coils correctly. Much better than just using a spark box which is only good for coils for a hit/miss engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, October 30, 2016 - 10:14 pm:

Arnold,

I strongly disagree based on a comparison between the ECCT and HCCT and Strobo Spark. My conclusion is that you cannot possibly adjust coils properly using an ECCT.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Arnold on Sunday, October 30, 2016 - 10:21 pm:

Royce, You can Disagree but I have A motorized HCCT and a ECCT and I can make the comparison myself. You should get an ECCT before you come to any conclusions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, October 30, 2016 - 10:30 pm:

Arnold
Been there done that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Sunday, October 30, 2016 - 10:51 pm:

There you go Again Royce.

Arnold made a post with his comment and you made a post . Just Leave it there and Don't start another pissing match.


I am sure you, just like all the rest could learn how to the use any of the coil adjusting tools that we have available you're a smart enough guy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Sunday, October 30, 2016 - 11:03 pm:

ROYCE, JUST STOP IT!

I have adjusted my coils with an ECCT and it flies up hills.

I realize that you live in the flatlands of Texas and how Model Ts run elsewhere does not matter.

My T runs really well with my ECCT adjusted coils.

DO NOT CALL ME A LIAR.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warwick Landy Traralgon Australia on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 12:45 am:

Absolutely no doubt Ron and Brent have an absolutely great product with coil rebuilds. I have purchased rebuilt sets from both guys and recommended their services to many others.I'm both guys will also tell you after sales service and adjustment can be necessary dependant on use and abuse. It is not hard to 'adjust' a coil away from its optimum set up just by bumping it! My preferred method of adjustment and maintenance is to use an ECCT! It works for me. I suggest all T owners take their coils out at least once a season and have them adjusted on their tester of choice. ECCT, HCCT or Strobospark will do the job best. Stay away from testers based on current draw alone. They are a rough indication but will not help you if you are chasing optimum performance. Glad you are experiencing a T that runs right David. Nothing better!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David L Corman on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 07:17 am:

ECCT using Time to Fire is superior to all other ways of coil point setting !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 07:32 am:

Well if that ain't pot calling the kettle "Black". If someone gets on here and starts a thread about an ECCT and even ONE person mentions a HCCT or Strobopsark in a positive light, they get crucified right on the spot for butting into someone else's thread and accused of going off topic, yada yada yada. But somebody starts a thread about one of the premier coil builders in our midst and it's perfectly OK for everybody to start pushing the ECCT. What a double standard!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 07:38 am:

I don't resort to name calling or personal attacks Bill. That's the other guy, the one who took your lunch money.

The ECCT fails to do several things:

1. It was unable to detect double sparking coils. Meanwhile, both the hand cranked coil tester and the Strobo Spark identified all double sparking coils. We had several double sparking coils in the group that were set using the ECCT, and several others from my reject pile.

2. The ECCT does not synchronize coils on AC voltage. It does synchronize them on DC voltage, which is of no use when the car is operating on MAG. Coils set on the ECCT tested poorly both on the Hand Cranked Coil Tester and on the Strobo spark. They were not synchronized to one another, and they were not firing in an acceptable range of current. Some were too high, others too low, but none were "just right".

3. The ECCT fails good capacitors. In this instance, it appears that the ECCT is actually measuring capacitance value, but the test value is set too narrowly to be reliable. Comparing it to a Fluke meter with capacitance testing one can see that the ECCT is just too picky, it only likes one brand of capacitor, the ones currently sold by Fun Projects.

4. The car runs noticeably better on coils set using either the Hand Cranked Coil Tester or the Strobo Spark. We did a blind comparison, selecting four ECCT coils from a batch of ten that were set on the ECCT. The car started OK and ran OK on battery. Switching to MAG one cylinder dropped off. Accelerating through the range of operation the dead cylinder came to life as the magneto voltage got high enough to fire the weak coil.

As it turned out when we tested that set of four coils on a Strobo Spark and HCCT, one of the randomly selected ECCT set coils was double sparking, and it was set at such a high current that it pegged the meter on the Strobo Spark. We had to test it on the Hand Cranked Coil Tester to see the double sparking, because the current limiter in the Strobo Spark was keeping it from sparking at all on that device.

Those are the facts gentlemen, with the utmost respect and with the intent that you should not take my word for it. Anyone can duplicate these tests and the results will of course be obvious. This forum is a place to share methods to make your Model T run better. It is not a place to hurl insults and accusations.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Arnold on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 08:29 am:

Royce, your testing must be flawed in some way, if people with the ECCT are getting great results using the ECCT. I think the time to fire is the key measurement . Ford had no way of testing the time to fire so he used the current used by the coil to approximate the time to fire. WE now can be much more accurate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Arnold on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 08:41 am:

Royce, your testing must be flawed in some way, if people with the ECCT are getting great results using the ECCT. I think the time to fire is the key measurement . Ford had no way of testing the time to fire so he used the current used by the coil to approximate the time to fire. WE now can be much more accurate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 12:12 pm:

I want some NEUTRAL party to TRUTHFULLY tell me they can take a set of ECCT coils and a set of HCCT coils, put them in the same car under the same conditions and repeatedly get a noticeable increase in performance with the ECCT coils over the HCCT coils in a BLIND test.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 01:28 pm:

Hal: I would be happy if a neutral, qualified party tested both sets of coils on the two devices and reported the results of both tests on the same coils. jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 01:31 pm:

Possibly not Hal though I doubt it. It's the constant maligning of a quality T product. However, Royce and a few others will sing accolades if a product is marketed by a member of the "old boys club". "Neutral" party, ha. You're pretty flipping funny too Hal. The troll in question simply needs to refrain from posting based upon HIS dislike.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - West Melbourne Florida on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 01:38 pm:

I had my coils done by bret mitz 4 years ago and they are still running just fine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 01:41 pm:

James

You cannot test coils on both an HCCT and an ECCT. They do not adjust coils the same way, so you will not be able to get them to match. You can only adjust 2 sets of coils and test the sets against each other.

I also find it interesting that only one member of the Dallas club is making a comment. No one else has said a word.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 02:08 pm:

The idea of a blind comparison test is great. Get Kossor to sit in a fenced off area and rebuild a set of coils to test on his machine. Regan can be in a separate table building and adjusting a set on his machine. Patterson in the third table setting up coils to run on his Hand Cranked Coil Tester.

Then have all three sets run by the Tulsa chapter on a dyno with the car on MAG, using the same car, the same dyno, on the same day.

I think such a comparison test would be most useful if it was published by the MTFCA in the magazine. However the results will probably not be popular with one of the participants.

Dave, simply put, not everyone has a thick enough skin to put up with the insults and name calling from the folks who think they are ten feet tall when they are on the internet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 06:09 pm:

I guess when I get my coils back I will keep my mouth shut about who rebuilt them and using what method. I know I'm new here on forum but wow!!!
I can hear arguing by listening to grand kids or going to fire station.
Drive safe and often
If it runs good! Drive it !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 06:12 pm:

Dave: Dave, of course you can evaluate coils set up on one device with the other. Adjust 4 with ECCT and adjust 4 with HCCT. Then report the HCCT readings for current for the 4 coils adjusted on ECCT, and report the dwell times for the 4 that were adjusted by current on the HCCT. Better yet, do all 8 on HCCT, read dwell times with ECCT, then set dwell time on all 8 with ECCT and read current on HCCT. I understand the value of uniform dwell time, but how much variability in dwell time exists when you set them on a HCCT? I would appreciate some hard data on this, that's all. Respectfully, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 06:49 pm:

"it only likes one brand of capacitor," Another spurious claim. When I did extensive testing on the ECCT a year ago, comparing its results with lab grade instruments, I tested a number of random capacitors of differing manufacture and they all passed easily. All the rebuilt coils I've tested on it have passed.
I had the opportunity to borrow and test the ECCT before I bought one, so my positive experience with it comes with no bias.
Like everyone else, except for one persistent fly in the ointment whose testing was flawed as explained here http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/686122.html?1477282023, I've been very pleased with the ECCT and always recommend it for everyone who uses the Ford coil ignition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 09:34 pm:

What are you saying Gary? I'm not following you. What's "funny" about having a neutral party test the coils?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Monday, October 31, 2016 - 09:47 pm:

Hello Royce,

I owe you an apology.

You did NOT call me a liar.

I chose my words poorly. It was late and I had been up for over eighteen hours and with little sleep before hand. I felt that you had rebuffed my truthful report of my car's performance. I became upset and failed to exercise restraint, manners, and better word choice. Again, I apologize.

I don't care how anyone adjusts their coils or coils for someone else. Do what you want and enjoy your car.

I like the device I use and other people are happy with the coils that I have adjusted for their cars.

Drive your T often, be safe, smile frequently. Life is just too short and it gets shorter every day. Bill








Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 10:05 am:

Hal, the funny part is "neutral party". Doubt that would ever be found.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 10:34 am:

After all this crap fest, nobody better ever pick on my use of a distributor! This whole silly, childish debate has forever sickened me on even the notion of using coils again. I want no part of it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 11:06 am:

I wish someone would do the test and settle this once and for all. If one method turns out to be head and shoulders above the others then so be it. If not, then the parties involved can quit claiming it is. If it takes 1000's of dollars worth of test equipment to tell a nickel's worth of difference then nobody gets to claim superiority, and oughta be strung up if they do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 11:16 am:

Hal,

This will never be settled to anyone's satisfaction, no matter what. Somewhere, in all the back and forth, the truth has already been spoken, but unwilling ears refused to recognize it or hear it. The same will hold true after any such test. Besides, who really cares. It's not even about Model T's anymore. It's about who's right and who's wrong and who egos are bigger and who can more accurately count the hairs on a peach. This stopped being about Model T's long ago.

(Disclaimer: I pick no side in the fight, nor do I suggest who's "truth" is more valid. I frankly do not know.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 11:17 am:

I had to lookup ECCT... That's a fancy piece of equipment. $600?!?!

I guess I have been away for a while! I do know from experience that the old buzz box vs. the strobospark is night and day difference - unless you get lucky, which happens.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 11:24 am:

".....and who can more accurately count the hairs on a peach."

I strongly suspect you are right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 11:30 am:

Put a 1 in front of that for an HCCT. Probably needing work besides. And don't buy one missing the meter. Here's my buzz box. I don't even bother building any thing any more because their just good for a go/no go test. That's a train x-former using the AC terminals. By the way: the brass tops were painted black? Didn't know that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 07:16 pm:

The stamped tops on the early KW six screw metal top coils were Black anodized. This was dropped later on the four screw stamped metal top (both red and yellow Brass) coils. Ford and KW jointly produced these coils but there is no conclusive evidence Ford used the black anodizing process.
Here is a photo of three NOS red Brass metal top coils. Never been installed in a car and the original capacitors have no measurable DC leakage.
1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Thursday, November 03, 2016 - 10:23 am:

TTT


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Thursday, November 03, 2016 - 11:55 am:

A blind test? That would have to be performed according to scientific method... That would involve a dozen different people each building three sets of coils. Each set of 4 coils would be set up on the three different systems (HCCT, Strobo, ECCT). Then, each set would be installed, dyno'ed & driven in dozens of different cars. You would have to use a good cross section of different Ford magneto systems (1/2", 5/8" & 3/4" magnets, field coils that are early double stack, late double stack, oval, wide single stack, narrow single stack. Engines would have to be verified as to cam & valve condition, if the timer was properly centered and the timing cover recess for the timer isn't worn. Each car would have to be tested with the four major styles of timer and maybe a couple different spark plugs. And what about the carburetor??? Etc, Etc, Etc...

If you paid the coil rebuilders for their products and paid everyone else involved $15 per hour for their time, and paid an independent inspector / data compiler a fair wage, this would cost tens of thousands of dollars...

Now, with that said, I have re-build several hundred coils which I have all adjusted on a restored Allen Electric brand Hand Cranked Coil Tester. I make sure that every coil that leaves the shop has 16 single sparks per revolution from an RPM slightly above initial sparking up to maybe 80 RPM. I did a little experimenting and found that coils that are a little "flaky" (occasional double sparks, or missing a spark here and there) on the HCCT generally run just fine in any car for hundreds if not thousands of miles (I've used a couple of these in my car for a couple seasons).

Bottom line is: HCCT, STROBO SPARK, & ECCT all pretty much achieve the same goal. It is simply a choice of personal preference.

I like the HCCT because it was known to be the most accurate method employed during (and after) the years that 15,000,000 Model T's were manufactured. During that time, tens of thousands of T coils were probably set up at various locations around the world EVERY DAY.

I like the Strobo-spark for its light, small size, and transport-able-ity for setting coils away from the shop. (but I don't own one)

I personally don't care for the ECCT but not because it doesn't achieve its goal. The ECCT shows irregularities of adjustment to a level of fine-tuning that is far past the point of any performance difference in the average Model T. In other words, the ECCT consumes a lot of extra time adjusting coils to a level far beyond "properly functioning". Its like having a carpenter build you a house and making him cut all the wood to machine shop standards... Takes a bunch of time, costs more, doesn't result in a noticeably better product, but you have the personal satisfaction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, November 03, 2016 - 12:34 pm:

You could call it UN-scientific if you wanted to. God knows I got accused of THAT on a similar subject by surrogates of one of the parties involved here. But I say you take a single car in good operating condition that the owner would be willing to let others drive. Gather up as many experienced T drivers that you can find. Let them take the car around the block (or the track, or whatever) 3 different times, each time with a different set of coils that had been set up with the different machines. Then let the drivers rate the performance like the eye doctor does. "Which is better? 1 or 2? Now 2 or 3? Or is it about the same? Only one person should know which coils are which. This person should be neutral with a reputation beyond reproach. I nominate Hap.:-) Sorry Hap. Didn't mean to drag you into this.:-) Then tally the results. As a matter of fact, I'm not aware of any pissing contest between HCCT users and Strobospark users, so you might make it simpler by only comparing two of the three methods.

THEN....if one of the sets of coils turns out to be head and shoulders above the rest, maybe bragging rights ARE in order. If the difference is a nanosecond off an around the world trip, that method is NOT superior and bragging rights and infomercials are NOT in order.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Thursday, November 03, 2016 - 01:07 pm:

First it's a lap around the block or track Hal. Now it's a nanosecond off a trip around the world? Can't have your cake and eat it too,bud. Or crow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, November 03, 2016 - 01:38 pm:

Gary,

My hypothesis on this whole deal is that no one can really tell the difference from the driver's seat. I may be right or wrong. I don't know. We have folks come on here and say how much better their car performs with coils adjusted on some particular machine, but they don't say compared to what. Compared to the old POS coils that were in there since the 50's? Compared to a brand new set of Coil Doctor coils? Compared to a set of coils adjusted by ear? On the other end of the spectrum, we get a plethora of dazzling photos of waveforms on an oscilloscope that most folks don't understand, or graphs showing some minor increase in something at some rpm that is outside the normal operating range of most T's, but since it's so high tech, it must be right. Right? My point is....if you can't tell it from the driver seat and it takes several thousand dollars worth of high tech test equipment to show a nickle's worth of difference, is it REALLY so great as to make the other system obsolete and not worthy of further use?

Forgive my exaggerations, but surely you get my point.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, November 03, 2016 - 02:53 pm:

Hal,

When a coil is double sparking, it gives a very weak spark too early, completely out of synch with any properly set, or even improperly set coils that are producing a single spark. Typically the output from a double sparking coil is too weak to cause a spark at the plug gap until the engine gets up to higher RPM / higher voltage from the magneto. Then the coil begins to put out stronger double sparks, enough to regain use of the previously dead cylinder.

A double sparking coil is quite obvious.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, November 03, 2016 - 03:09 pm:

I agree. I make sure I adjust out all the double (or missing) sparks before calling myself done with a coil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Thursday, November 03, 2016 - 05:27 pm:

A slightly imperfect adjustment that shows as an occasional "double spark" or missing spark on a HCCT at 60 to 80 rpm may not even be present when the coil is in actual operation in the vehicle.

If you get 16 nice single sparks per revolution on the hand crank tester, you will have a satisfactory operating coil in your vehicle. If you build coils for profit, this is your quality control. Anything less is not acceptable. However, if you are showing one or two double sparks or a missing spark once or twice per revolution, odds are still real fair that the coil will operate correctly in the vehicle, or at least well enough that you have no idea anything is amiss.

You have to remember that in the car, an individual coil is only firing once every other revolution of the crank and at a much higher voltage.

An HCCT fires a coil 32 times per every 2 revolutions of the crank. The engine only fires that same coil with accuracy to fire the cylinder once every 2 revolutions (you may get 1 or 2 later sparks depending upon timer brand, setting, etc but these are "waste" and require no accuracy). There is way more "recovery time" for the coil/points between firings when it is in "actual operation" in the vehicle. Reliability also goes up proportionately as voltage goes up, which is proportionate to engine speed (if your mag works right).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Thursday, November 03, 2016 - 06:24 pm:

I just had the points replaced on the coils in my coupe because I wore them out and the coils were adjusted on an ECCT. A few weeks ago on the way home from a car show the car climbed every hill at 30-35 mph and at one point it reached 46 mph easily on level ground. My car ran perfectly on Strobo Spark adjusted coils and could go just fast and climb hills as good as it can now so, I'm not saying there is a noticeable improvement but, ECCT coils seem to perform just as good as Strobo Spark coils.

Stephen

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Sunday, November 06, 2016 - 07:39 am:

TTT


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