The Motor Arrived for my '14 Today

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: The Motor Arrived for my '14 Today
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 05:18 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 05:26 pm:

Oops! wrong picture.





Sorry. Just my warped sense of Humor.
I was pleased to find the Motor on the front steps today. Some of you may recall the "Patina Queen" I have been working on. I did a backyard rebuilt on this engine for it a year ago but it produced too little compression to run. I had good success with several other engines over the years but this one needed a proper rebuild. With the rest of it ready to go it should be running soon. I'll report any interesting details as they happen.
Yippeee!!
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 06:19 pm:

Shucks, I thought you were putting a V8-60 in your 14.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 07:03 pm:

Richard, it goes in much easier if you turn it up the other way.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 07:13 pm:

Richard,

It won't be long and you'll be on the road with that one.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 07:27 pm:

Is that a plastic/nylon timing gear? I'm no expert but that wouldn't be in any engine of mine. Just sayin'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Sorenson-Montrose,CO on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 07:49 pm:

I thought you found the elusive Model T V8...!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Tuesday, November 01, 2016 - 11:57 pm:

I took advantage of the rebuild time to work on a '35 Ford and a '19 Harley. Both are projects that I neglected for too many years. Now I can bounce from one to another whichever seems the most fun. The sigth of the V-8 and the T got the better of me. I'm sure the cam gear will be fine. These rebuilders know what they are doing. If not it will make a fun forum thread. $;0(
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, November 02, 2016 - 01:56 am:

Yes Richard, you would like to think that re-builders do know what they are doing, but we have seen some questionable things done before today.
I would assume that this gear, photo has been on the forum before, had generator problems? but they are strip-able.
Also I've never thought that glyptal paint, as a good idea in a model T block. It is an insulating heat resistant paint for up to 135c, designed to keep heat out of electrical components etc, the T engine is only water temp controlled on the top and therefore relies on the cast iron for all the other heat transfer, not going to happen to a full effect with it all sealed up from the inside.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, November 02, 2016 - 02:49 am:

Richard E, You are So-o bad!

On a non-generator (and no external magneto) T engine, I would think the nylon gear is okay.

I wish I was getting that far with my '15 right now.
I look forward to more pictures of you '14!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Wednesday, November 02, 2016 - 08:04 am:

Thanks for your concerns Frank. I would not have chosen the nylon gear myself or the glyptal paint. I agree with Wayne the lack of a generator makes a difference. These re-builders know a whole lot about T motors and I have every confidence in their decisions. I was happy to let them use their best judgment.
Wayne, I hope you are enjoying your roadster project. They do take time.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Wednesday, November 02, 2016 - 09:24 am:

Selling point on Glyptal is how much more rapidly "free" oil will return to the sump. In a total "splash" system, that has to be a good thing ! (Them dippers ought to help too !)

Nylon can be mighty tough in gearing (and quiet !!) I wonder what caused the gear in the picture to shell out ? I'd guess a froze-up generator. Not enough stress in a T valve train to be a problem for a non-starter T, I'd think. It doesn't look "period authentic " inside, but she'll probably run well into the next century!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Wednesday, November 02, 2016 - 10:20 am:

Good points Rich.
I think if a generator seized up it might be a good thing to have the cam gear fail rather than putting the strain elsewhere.

I didn't intend for this to be a discussion of parts choices. Although I do appreciate the concerns and Ideas. In 52 years I have had engines rebuilt by 5 different re-builders and had excellent results from all. I have pieced several engines back together as was done back in the day with good results also. Model T engines are pretty resilient.

I find that seeing failures of parts on the forum causes us to worry we will surely have the same problem. On my last drive a few weeks ago I endured the fear of "are we going to get there or not". The purr of the motor was sweet but just the same as before the crankshaft broke or the axle breaking etc. We don't comment enough about the thousands of trouble free miles we enjoy.

Rich, did the '13 get there? How does it look?

The other Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Wednesday, November 02, 2016 - 11:09 am:

P.S. I didn't reply to Allan from down under's comment regarding turning the motor up the other way. Installing as shown gives me overhead valves. !0)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, November 02, 2016 - 11:38 am:

I guess that beats hanging the chassis from the roof to install the engine. The Glyptal/heat business reminds me of the heavier ribbed valve covers sold for the Beetle engines as improved cooling. It was found that a cooler coating of oil formed on the inside of the cover and actually acted as insulation causing less cooling.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Wednesday, November 02, 2016 - 03:28 pm:

Heat transfer is a many splendored thing. With a T, I reckon the best course is, when she boils over, . . . quit pullin' !!

Rich, yep she's here, I'll send more pix (and more BS) later. Thanks for asking.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Lyon, PDX, OR. on Wednesday, November 02, 2016 - 09:15 pm:

Richard, are you doing a calendar for next year? I sure liked my '15 calendar, really missed not having one for 16. Don.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Thursday, November 03, 2016 - 01:48 am:

Thanks for asking Don. I am hoping to put one together of Swap Meet poster illustrations. I have run out of suitable paintings. I will let you know if it happens.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Friday, November 04, 2016 - 10:50 am:

In fairness to the Nylon timing gear I was told "these gears aren't the same as the type that stripped out. The "old" nylon gears had the tooth angle cut wrong. Many of these gears failed while in service." If you have concerns it would be good to check this out.
In the engines I piece together I like to see the old steel gears in them.
My only objection is they don't look like the old steel ones while I can see them.
The engine installation is going fine.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim on Friday, November 04, 2016 - 07:01 pm:

I've sold and installed hundreds of nylon gears with no reported failures. I'm even running one on my overhead engine and I push that HARD.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, November 04, 2016 - 07:39 pm:

I've used lots of the nylon gears without any trouble. I always pair them with new crankshaft and generator gears (when applicable), which I think is important.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Sunday, November 06, 2016 - 05:44 pm:

I discovered today that if you use any solid timing gear (no holes between spokes) you need to install the timer felt before you fill the engine with oil. It can leak out there. It hasn't with the Ford gear on my cars. (The felt shown was installed after the oil leaked.)



This project is going well. I am enjoying the space a '14 or earlier car has around the motor with the firewall/dash removed. Those cowls can be hard to work around.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Sunday, November 06, 2016 - 09:52 pm:

Rich, that looks great !! it's always a thrill for me to see a restoration go together !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Sunday, November 06, 2016 - 11:08 pm:

I can't see the center and rear cat, but the front main cap is turned off by 180 degrees. If it was bored that way, it will work, but if not, it should be checked.

Herm.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, November 07, 2016 - 05:43 am:

What are you on Herm??
For a man who fits con rods around the wrong way, why do you see a need for a main cap to have a front and back before machining???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Monday, November 07, 2016 - 07:25 am:

Thanks for your concern Herm. I am sure it was bored that way. I am sorry when my photos cause undue concerns and will try to be more careful in what I post.
Thanks
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, November 07, 2016 - 02:55 pm:

Richard, what would be of concern, would be if your engine showed a bad timing gear fit like Herms photo, you would have to ask, how many degrees would the cam timing be out with a mesh like that?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Monday, November 07, 2016 - 05:02 pm:

Today I fired up the new engine. It sounds wonderful.
Thanks to all of you for sharing in the fun.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 07, 2016 - 05:19 pm:

Woohoo, congratulations! :-O


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Jefferson, Ohio on Monday, November 07, 2016 - 05:31 pm:

Sounds really quiet from here!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Monday, November 07, 2016 - 06:45 pm:

First of all it doesn't make any difference which way the wrist pin bolt is faced, as long as they are all the same. What difference would wrist direction make any way in your engines Frank, when you put in all those bent rods that you said were bored straight on your mill, and you never even knew about off set!

The time gear match is perfect, as any fool can see the camera is not line with the gears.

We set the cranks exactly where they belong, with in .002, For and Aft. Model T cranks, expand forward at least .020 thousandths when hot, as anyone can see from old original cam gears.

Richard, what would be of concern, would be if your engine showed a bad timing gear fit like Herms photo, you would have to ask, how many degrees would the cam timing be out with a mesh like that?"END QUOTE"

Mesh Frank, what the heck can you tell me about mesh by that picture?

Frank, go blow your B.S. up some body else Bung!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, November 07, 2016 - 07:19 pm:

You amaze me Herm.
My rods are always checked, I just don't have to bend crap out of them to be right.
All the years of others,myself, Ford specs and come backs to you as failures, you still persist in you can't fit T rods backwards.
Do you charge your customers for the repairs when they come back with popped wrist pin bolts? you posted back in 2012 one came back at 600 miles!

That's no camera angle to see 1/16" of brass hanging out of mesh there Herm!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 08:47 am:

I sense some animosity here. Sometimes getting things off your chest helps.

Thanks Mark and Dennis.
The car does have a good muffler.

Rich ;0)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 12:59 pm:

Frank, we have never had an engine or bearing off anything that has came back. You have got to stop thinking that every body does machine work like you.

As far as your rods, any one can search in past posts and see where you fought tooth and nail that your rods, were straight when they come off the mill, because you dialed them in true, which is B.S. in any sense of the word, as just about all will distort from clamp pressure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 02:33 pm:

Herm, I think you may be getting off the subject this thread was started with. It might be well for you to continue your discussion somewhere else. Some might consider it offensive.
Thanks
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Tuesday, November 08, 2016 - 02:43 pm:

Well Richard, that's the way it is with Puss Pants!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 05:14 pm:

The unseasonably nice weather allowed me to work outside this week. I fixed some leaks on the radiator I plan to use.



The fan had some bent blades. I made a form to straighten them in my press. Maple works good for this.







I also built up the fan shaft with sleeves so I could ream the fan bushings round and to a good fit.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 06:09 pm:

Great work as usual, Richard! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Sunday, November 13, 2016 - 12:05 pm:

Thanks Mark. Here is the finished Fan. I know these are not the preferred restoration methods but good enough for this car who never knew it's Father. Just showing that there are many ways to skin a Rat. !<)


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