Which Carburetor is this?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Which Carburetor is this?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Wednesday, November 09, 2016 - 04:16 pm:

I'm going to purchase a rebuild kit but i'm not sure which carburetor this is?
carb1carb2carb3carb4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James M. Riedy, Sandusky, Ohio on Wednesday, November 09, 2016 - 04:28 pm:

Shawn, I believe that to be a Kingston L-4 carb off of a improved car being that it has the u-joint type swivel. Most parts should be available, but I don't think the float is reproduced so be careful when trying to remove it. Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Wednesday, November 09, 2016 - 04:33 pm:

Obviously in the Southern Hemisphere!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Wednesday, November 09, 2016 - 04:56 pm:

Thanks for the info. Is this carb ok for the model t? Southern Hemisphere?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Wednesday, November 09, 2016 - 05:18 pm:

Shawn; If you need a new float, there is an inexpensive Briggs & Stratton float that fits, this is referenced in a previous thread. These floats are brass but do not have the mounting hinge and shutoff tab, that would have to be made or come from a defunct donor L-4 float. jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Wednesday, November 09, 2016 - 05:24 pm:

OK, I have found the rebuild kit on MacsAuto for $49 + shipping. Are there instructions on how to rebuild and setup the carb?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, November 09, 2016 - 06:01 pm:

I would NOT get the kit. It includes a Grose jet, not a needle valve. That's trouble. It also includes things you don't need, and may lack parts you do need. I would first find out what, if anything, needs to be replaced, then go to Birdhaven, Bob's, Chaffin's, Lang's, or one of the many other good Model T parts dealers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Wednesday, November 09, 2016 - 06:10 pm:

OK thanks for the hint. Whats the difference between the Grose jet and a needle valve?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Wednesday, November 09, 2016 - 06:28 pm:

Shawn, the Grose jet is a ball type valve. They are very problematic because the balls will stick shut and the engine stops running due to lack of fuel or they stick open and the carburetor spills gas on the ground. I've worked on three carburetors that had Grose jets in them and had nothing but problems until I replaced them. If your original needle and seat are still good I would re-use them. They are better than the needle valves that are currently being manufactured. If you need to replace the valve be prepared to need to smooth out the replacement needle with a wet stone. They're often so rough that the won't seal properly.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Wednesday, November 09, 2016 - 06:31 pm:

I just had a good read around and I see they can get stuck. I'll stick with my needle and valve. Is there a PDF anywhere on setting up the carb?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:50 am:

Shawn, if you have the brass needle without the Viton tip you can take a little timesaver lapping compound and reseat it to the seat, Kingston's run very well and are the easiest to rebuild. If the throttle shaft is worn, a little dental floss wrapped around it for a seal will last many thousands of miles. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 06:08 am:

Dental floss is a first ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 06:12 am:

Kingston L-4's rarely have much of anything go wrong with them other than maybe a couple of gaskets...the float is brass, not cork and the float valve is usually in good shape...I have two of these carbs (brass bodied), I use one for a back up for the other. They are reputedly not as efficient as any of the Holley's, but I like them because they are less cold blooded than the Holley's and warm up quick with no carburetor mixture adjustments required.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 10:38 am:

I second Martin's observations, I love my L4! :-O


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 11:05 am:

I see that while you can get a new valve needle, the L-4 spray needle is not available. Here's how to fix the original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTiStUTU9IE


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Sutton on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 11:37 am:

Can anyone help with float height and other settings so he doesn't have to ask a third time? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 11:42 am:

Why not just get the MTFCA Carburetor book?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 04:06 pm:

There is a book? I'll check it out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 04:18 pm:

Shawn, judging by the lack of wear on the throttle screw, the 'flapper pivot'slot and the lock nut on the adjustment needle, that carb may well need nothing but the bowl gaskets. An L4 is a good carburetor. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!
I recommend the bok ModelTFordOwner for newbies.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:25 pm:

I'll give it a good soak and clean and go from there. Is soaking it in petrol ok to loosen up all the crud?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:33 pm:

I would prefer you use carburetor cleaner.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:42 pm:

Try this. Get the fuel elbow cleaned up so there is no gross crap on it. With carburetor in upright position, blow into the elbow. Then, again make sure there is no crap in the bowl, invert the carb.Suck on the elbow. Using a little spit like a gasket,see if your younger sticks to the elbow. That means the float valve is good. If does not stick, valve just may need touched up a little.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:46 pm:

Great. I'll try that over the weekend. You guys are so helpful. Really big thanks to everyone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:54 pm:

That should be tounge sticks to the elbow. Damn sPELLCheck. This is the way the oldtimers did it. Think that is also in the Ford manual. How the hell does sPELLCheck get younger out of tounge? No smart-ass remarks, please!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 06:04 pm:

French kiss?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 06:44 pm:

I had something a little different in mind. A very old joke, told to by a first World War veteran that had been 'across the pond'. 'Indiana is an odd place. North Vernon is south. South Bend is North. And French Lick isn't what you think it is, either'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 02:28 am:

I had a look at the carb and it was seized. I tried carby cleaner and it was just pouring black goop. I pulled it apart and this is what I found.


Then while looking through my box of bits that came with the car I found this. An NH. Which one should I rebuild? The l4 looks to be in better condition.

carb3carb1carb2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 04:06 am:

That's normal way to find one. I had hopes for you it was dry. Soak in a pan with carburetor cleaner for a couple days. Pull the pin at the pivot to remove the float. The needle valve may be glued in by that gunk. . Have at it with a small brush. Stan Howe, contributor to the forum, is an experts expert (I am not an expert, just a barnyard tinkerer). Be certain to used a good fitting wrench to remove the mixture valve lock nut(i call it that). Other than gaskets, you may get away without having to buy anything. These carburetors were made about 30 miles from my house. They are excellent quality and elegantly simple.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 04:18 am:

And, being drowsey, I missed some of your post. A good looking NH. You certainly have a good choice here. Whichever one is in better shape to start. Nothing wrong with having a spare.Your NH looks virginal too. Alternate ways for them to look is all covered with nicks.Reason for nicks is blows from wrenches, rocks, railroad spikes, etc, to stop leaking float valves.Mr.Sandman is about to seize my faculties.... .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 07:24 am:

So ... what's up with posting your carburetor pictures with the carb upside down? When vendors on eBay do this I always ask them to please post at least one with the carb upright. Makes it easier to visualize how it would look when installed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 07:51 am:

The L-4 is a good carb in that it doesn't require a lot of fiddling with to get it running right...Holley's on the other hand are a bit (like I said) cold blooded, meaning they have a starting mixture position and a warmed up mixture position. That being said, the Holley is supposedly a better performer than the Kingston...me I could never tell the difference in the "performance" between the Holley or the Kingston (but there are those who will swear on a stack of Bibles there is a difference).

The other problem with Holley's is having to drill out all the passage plugs to clean and rod them out and then re-plugging those passages again with 8-32 set screws. On a Kingston, all you've pretty much got to do is soak the damn thing in some carb cleaner or gunk for a while, take it out blow out the passages and reassemble with some new gaskets and it'll run great (but don't forge to get that flapper in there, it's an important piece of that carb). The Mixture needle usually is fine and doesn't need anything at all.

If you're willing to go through the pain and trouble of rebuilding the Holley, then the Holley is the carb for you, but if you want an easy to clean, assemble and throw it back on the car carb that doesn't take a lot of maintenance, then I recommend the Kingston. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 08:06 am:

Shawn...got something for ya, whichever one you go with, these should help...a bit.





And give a good idea what's inside. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 10:24 am:

I needed a bowl gasket last week for an NH but didn't find one in my carburetor part box. So I used an empty Kleenex box to make one. It took about 2 - 3 minutes using a pencil, scissors, and a razor blade.

Lots of folks have done lots of testing using engine dynos, chassis dynos, etc. to compare the various Model T carburetors. The NH puts about 2 - 3 more horsepower at the rear wheels compared to any of the L series Kingston carburetors, in comparison testing under controlled conditions. It's not even close.

I would stop messing with the Kingston and get on with the good carburetor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 10:44 am:

I would clean up both of them and get them working. Then you can try them out on your car and use whichever one you like best. I have a Kingston on one of my cars and it is the fastest of the three cars. I have Holly's on the other two. I like both carburetors. It is a good idea to have a spare anyway, so just clean them both up.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Sunday, November 13, 2016 - 12:04 am:

I had to strip it. Every hole was blocked with crud. It's all clean now but when I look at the diagram above mine never had the 6171C. What is it and what does it do?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, November 13, 2016 - 12:18 am:

The parts book calls it an air stop valve. Somebody else will have to explain what it does. Lang's price is 30.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steven Thum on Sunday, November 13, 2016 - 01:56 am:

It is a piece of cork that cushions the air stop valve. Very cheep at 40 cents. It is usually missing from the Kingston as the old cork dries and flakes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Sunday, November 13, 2016 - 02:59 am:

Great. I'll order one. Let's see what the shipping is on cork. Can I just make one from a wine bottle cork?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Sunday, November 13, 2016 - 06:25 pm:

$18 Shipping!!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, November 13, 2016 - 06:41 pm:

Yes, you can make one (actually a lifetime supply of them) from a wine bottle cork. Cut it a little large in diameter so that it fits tightly in its socket, and make it long enough so that it keeps the flapper from hitting the top of the air passage when the flapper is fully open. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Sunday, November 13, 2016 - 07:22 pm:

That's what I thought. So does the cork just stop the metal on metal when fully open or does it need to be a "set" height?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, November 13, 2016 - 07:30 pm:

I suspect it's just there to stop the metal on metal contact, but maybe Stan Howe, Russ Potter, or some other carb rebuilder can educate us further.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Monday, November 14, 2016 - 09:21 pm:

Cut the cork as short as possible, leave just enough to cushion the flapper, most have the cork gone when they are torn down and I suspect have been gone a long time. It will run fine without the cork but may be a little noisy at idle. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Monday, November 14, 2016 - 09:43 pm:

I like the little NH carbs easy to build and run great. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Monday, November 14, 2016 - 10:10 pm:

Thanks everyone, I'll post some pics once assembled. Can anyone tell me what the small black tube thing (top left) is for in this kit?

kit


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 14, 2016 - 10:41 pm:

It is the felt packing for the fuel line where it attaches to the carb inlet elbow. The vendors also sell a neoprene version of that packing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Monday, November 14, 2016 - 11:05 pm:

So it goes here?
carb5


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, November 14, 2016 - 11:19 pm:

It's #2913 and goes inside #2910, which fits on the end of the fuel line and attaches to the elbow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Monday, November 14, 2016 - 11:32 pm:

Shawn, are you posting with a iPad? Mine post pics that are inverted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Monday, November 14, 2016 - 11:37 pm:

yup sorry, no idea why it does that. I think I under stand now. So the pipe that goes into that elbow. Any ideas what it does?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Monday, November 14, 2016 - 11:44 pm:

Shawn, that is a piece of felt. It does not go in the carburetor.Inside The fitting that goes over the fuel line is where it goes .
I wrapped cotton string around the fuel line to make a seal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Monday, November 14, 2016 - 11:47 pm:

More clearly, you stick it inside p/n 2910.when it compresses, it forms a seal. Neoprene is better than string around the end of the fuel line.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Monday, November 14, 2016 - 11:57 pm:

And, Shawn, it is possible to crack the L4 carburetors where that elbow threads in. Just tight enough so it doesn't leak. I still have a half or more full five gallon bucket of L4 carburetors that have a chunk out of the top of the threaded hole for the elbow. And, save yourself grief by not using any Teflon tape!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 - 12:31 am:

Not just L-4. I have several NH bodies with cracks from having the elbow screwed in too tight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 - 02:57 am:

Great tip. I'll just nip it up. ;)

The model t bible has been ordered. $38 shipping but at least I'll have one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 - 06:32 am:

You can read the T service manual online, (but it's easier to look through the physical version :-) )
http://mtfci2002.readyhosting.com/manuals/Model_T_Service_Manual/mtsm.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 08:23 pm:

Whats the nut/Colet size/called and are they easy to buy? When I purchased the car it was missing along with the pipe.
arrow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 09:39 pm:

Ford called it the fuel pipe pack nut (Part #2910). It's available from Henry's for $5.00 AU. http://henryspares.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Henrys-Model-T-Final-Draft- 140715.pdf

For the fuel line I use steel brake line. Brass and copper are more susceptible to breakage from metal fatigue.


(Message edited by steve_jelf_parkerfield_ks on November 20, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 09:42 pm:

OK I found it on Lang's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 09:44 pm:

Thanks Steve, I will have use the brake line. What diameter or are they all the same?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 10:10 pm:

I think the one that fits into the nut is " o.d. Some use a larger size, but that works OK for me so far.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 10:17 pm:

Great!!!! Thanks again Steve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 09:48 am:

Shawn

Ways of sealing the gas line to the carb elbow.

Ford used a steel hollow nut and felt packing (above in photo)

Some use copper tubing and compression fitting, but poor results can happen, the Ford elbow and the seal nut aren't really compression fitting made so the seal isn't perfect with the crush of the fitting. And, lots of vibration there as the engine shakes, and the chassis with the gas tank twists, can create fracture at the compression site.

Modern steel brake line 1/4" tubing as gas line, and then seal made of a piece of neoprene rubber flexible gas line which is soft and more dense than the Ford felt seal, so most use this, (lower pieces in photo) as the seal is secure, gas resistant, and allows some flex for the Ford fuel system.



(Message edited by Dan_Treace on November 21, 2016)

(Message edited by Dan_Treace on November 21, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 04:07 pm:

That is great. So much wonderful information!!! I have saved the picture.


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