Lower deck lid not fitting?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Lower deck lid not fitting?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 03:47 am:

Just got my panels from macsauto and tried fitting my lower deck lid. For some reason it looks wrong. What am I doing wrong?
lid1lid2lid3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gary hammond on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 06:24 am:

Measure your trunk lid opening side to side at the top. Now move down 1/2 way and measure the opening. At the bottom of the deck lid measure the opening again. If square and the decklid has a good gap on the sides then it looks as though the repro part dimensions are incorrect. Not an unusual situation, but a panel width shrinker does not exist. As far as correcting this you can slice the lip off of one end, trim the cut line again to get a good gap and butt weld the the lip back on, if you are fairly experienced with sheet metal work. Remember if butt welding, that panel shrinkage will happen if you don't weld a short section at a time. Most folks tack a spot at a time, moving to various locations along the cut until the entire line is welded. If you have access to a set of crimping pliers, make your cut about one inch from the lip you are moving, then crimp the edge on the wide panel and move the cut off lip to the position you want. About every 2 inches along the overlapped seam drill and pop rivet or drill and screw the two panel parts together. This will prevent ''creep'' while welding and once finished the fasteners can be removed and the holes can be tacked up. If you want less filler then tack the cut again and grind level. Remember too much heat is your enemy, control the heated area when welding to prevent distortion and burn thru. Best of luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gary hammond on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 06:35 am:

I did not mention that you must fit the panel to the trunk opening. If your trunk lid opening is not square, then it must be jacked open until it is. The square is what you are working with. You must insure the deck lid is securely positioned in it's proper location. All this boils down to - if the rear of the 1/4 panels are squashed together then the panel will not fit. If not squashed together and the new panel is too wide, then see first post above. Gary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 08:41 am:

Shawn: Don't cut that panel until you have tried spreading the opening and sliding the panel in from the bottom. The panel width and fit at the deck lid edge appears ok in the pics, it's likely the body sides are pushed in making it appear the panel is too long.

I went thru this with my '26 Dr's Coupe, I had to place a stick inside to spread the rear of the body slightly to make it fit. If you send a PM to jab35atCornell dot edu, I'll share measurements and try to answer questions, etc. Best, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 09:24 am:

Am I the only one that sees the large dent in the lower left quarter panel? It's pushing the bottom in and the top out.

Repair the dent and the damage cause by THAT event first. Nothing is going to fit if you don't do that first. Then the deck lid needs to fit the hole.

Fit the lower rear panel to what's left. Don't try to make everything fit the new panel. It looks like it needs some curvature work anyway so don't go cutting on it yet. Set it aside until you get the quarter panel and body lines straight so the deck lid fits.

Added: That dent in the left quarter panel is enough to push the right quarter panel out too. Be sure to square the body up before continuing.

(Message edited by kskopsky on November 10, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gary hammond on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 03:11 pm:

Stephen I saw the damage on the left side, and the term squashed referred to body damage causing the body opening to be narrow.Looks like we all are talking of the same things....Gary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 03:33 pm:

It appears to me as if no amount of pushing and squeezing is going to make up for the fact that the panel looks to be way wider then the trunk lid. I think it's just made way too wide. The lid will have huge gaps on either side once the body is stretched enough to get the panel in.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Saggese on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 03:56 pm:

The panel mounts under the T strip. It looks like the panel is not fully seated under the T strip on the right, and it should come to about the middle of the T strip on the left. Before you start stretching, pulling, cutting, or welding, make sure you're installing it properly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 04:00 pm:

Michael,

That makes the most sense yet!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:32 pm:

Hey guys,

The dent came with the new panel when I received it yesterday.

I measured from the inside of the T strips left to right and the top is 880mm (34.6457") and the bottom is 890mm (35.0394"). The lid is 900mm (38.9764").

If I push the panels apart I will have a huge gap between the trunk lid and the T strip.

I'll have another play tonight but it looks...... wrong.

trunk lid


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Brown on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:53 pm:

We used a repro panel on my 26 roadster. You must realize that it goes under the metal bead moulding that runs along side of deck lid. On mine there was a slight prob;em getting the proper curve to match the lid. Our biggest problem was getting the turtle to fit evenly with the body frame. We had to lengthen the body frame about 1/4" for it to fit properly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Brown on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:57 pm:

Does the repro panel fit snugly with the reinforcement that goes behind it? Or is that missing? It should.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 07:24 pm:

Nah I'm missing the reinforcement. I need to make that. Thanks for the pictures... great reference.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Brown on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 07:40 pm:

Shawn,
Here is another view, I hope this helps. This is from an early '26 roadster (October '25). It may differ from yours. It originally had a four holes to mount the spare tire carrier which is evident in this picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 08:51 pm:

Do it by the numbers!!! Mine was a mess from the P.O. Your panel is more then likely right! No matter who you bought it from, it was made by Howell's! It should be 35 1/8-35 1/4" wide. The bracing fits inside of it. The opening behind the "T" strips should be the same as the panel.

You'll need the correct numbers to even trying to make the inner bracing. You are not just going to put it in from the outside. There should be about a 1/8 inch on each side of the trunk lid when closed, when it's fitted right.

The bracing for a roadster is not the same as the bracing for a coupe. They may look close to the same, but are not the same.

I rebuilt my bracing brackets, and then made one complete set from scratch for a friend. The side brackets are a angle iron shape, and are arched to the body shape with a kick in at the top.

The bracing originally was riveted in, with the sides bolted, through the lower panel, "T" strips, body, and rain cutters.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Brown on Friday, November 11, 2016 - 02:12 pm:

Shawn. I have posted two enlarged images of the reinforcement that goes behind the lower panel. Please note that this is an early '26 so therefore there are two bolt holes to mount the spare tire bracket. The latter ones only had a center hole in the lower panel. I hope they can be of use to you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Friday, November 11, 2016 - 06:29 pm:

Will Brown:

Your picture on Nov 10th at 7:40 PM, perhaps points out another early to late feature of the turtle deck! I could not detect holes in the vertical flanges, both left and right that would bolt the turtle deck to the body. In other words perhaps the turtle deck is mounted to the body by bolts located in the horizontal section below the wheel well indentations only.

I also have a turtle deck without the holes in the vertical flanges. I point this out as another potential difference between early and late 1926 roadsters. I have no proof, but just a number of examples seen over the years that seem to make the two styles a reasonable assumption.

I have written about this is in the past. The spare tire mounting using 3 or 4 holes in the turtle deck/subframe is also perhaps an early late style but again no proof. Perhaps the record of change cards at the Bentson Library could yield us more information.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Brown on Friday, November 11, 2016 - 06:56 pm:

Arnie
You are correct. There were no holes in those vertical flanges. A turtle that I saw at Hershey a few years back had those holes and I assume that is was one later than mine. In order to make it fit tight I did attach it with a bolt on the right side of the turtle. The original attaching bolts were at the top of the turtle and very crudely attached at that See where the eye bolts are in the photo of the 11/10 7:40 photo. I think Donnie Brown has determined that there were two spare tire flanges-a three and a four hole one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 06:01 am:

Is that last picture a 26 coupe? If so how easily does the whole rear end detach like in the picture? Having it apart like that would make everything a lot easier. What do I need to undo? I already have the body detached from the frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 06:19 am:

Is that last picture a 26 coupe? If so how easily does the back come off like in the picture? I already have the frame separated from the body. That would make think easier to repair.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 07:23 am:

Shawn,
Yours is a coupe, it does not come apart. Use your other thread you started. You are getting confused by the differences between a Coupe, and a Roadster, and how the parts go together, and look.

Pat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Clark-Deer Lodge, Tn on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 07:37 am:

I bumped your other thread up for you.

Pat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Benedict, Humboldt, TN on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 08:04 am:

Shawn, I have the same car as you, 26 coupe. Let me know if I can give you any measurements. My lid fits real nice with even side gaps. Mine is original with no repairs. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Brown on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 02:31 pm:

Oh, Sorry, I didn't realize that we were talking about a coupe. That was not made clear in your post.
Will


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