When did ford start to refer to ...

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: When did ford start to refer to ...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n LakeOzark,Missourah on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 03:33 pm:

Tourings as a Phaeton. I only see it at the start of the 'A'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 07:06 pm:

1928. There were never any Model T phantoms.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 07:32 pm:

They wanted to add a some class to the Ford image. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 07:52 pm:

George,

I remember seeing where a Ford was referred to with the term Phaeton a little earlier than the 1928 Model A Fords. It is in an English Ford dealer pamphlet by Thornton Perry and Schreiber. Among other early Fords it included an advertisement for a Model S Double Phaeton see below:



Royce credited the copy of that illustration which he posted in the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/391442.html?1380761865 to courtesy Neil Tuckett, from his private collection. Minor clarification or possible question. While Royce listed it as a March 1907 pamphlet, I suspect that it a “type-o.” In the “English Model T Ford (Book 1)” the same illustration is listed as 1908 and from Neil Tuckett’s collection on page 11. [Yes, companies often did reuse the previous illustrations and photos in the following year(s) sometimes with a new caption. But the Model S Roadster style cowl was not introduced that early – at least not in the USA.] Additionally, the scans of the photo copies I believe John Biggs sent to me back in Sep 2003, as well as the information in the “English Model T Ford (Book 1)” both have testimonials about the various cars. Those testimonials or owner’s letters are dated in Oct 1907 which would make a Mar 1907 publication date highly unlikely. Royce, if you happen to read this and have time to take a look at it again, please let us know if on the same page below the illustration of the Double Phaeton if there is a testimonial or letter dated Oct 11, 1907 by Mr. Carowther of Winchester about the Double Phaeton. If that is not there, then it is likely the same illustration used in two different pamphlets. In that case please check the booklet for other items that could help with dating the copy. For example, in the scanned copy I have the “Guarantee” on page 15 had the date “__________ 1908” published there. The year was already printed and they would add the day and month the car was purchased. If it truly is a Mar 1907 pamphlet, that would put the curved Model S Roadster cowl in production in England significantly before it was introduced in the USA.

But at any rate before the Model T was produced, the English were using the term “Double Phaeton” for a Ford car that was available from them.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 07:54 pm:

Yep 1928. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 08:10 pm:

One additional item, Thornton Perry and Schreiber apparently continued to use the term "Double Phaeton" for the Model T. At least that was the term used by the motoring press when it was displayed at their booth at the Nov 13-21, 1908 London Motor Show - Olympia. Ref page 17 "English Model T Ford (book 1)."

Note their English advertisements changed to "Touring car." When? I'm not sure but the 1911 English advertisement on page 34 of the "English Model T Ford (book 1) used the "Touring Car" term.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 10:22 am:

According to my 1941 copy of Webster's dictionary, a Phaeton is listed as: "an open four-wheeled carriage"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 11:12 am:

Stupid I phone spell check does not recognize the word Phaeton.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 09:34 pm:

From Dykes Automobile Encyclopedia, 1922, page 9, The Body, ...'the following descriptions of the various bodies are proposed by the Car Body Division of the Society of Automotive Engineers (S.A.E.)

"Roadster" a small open type body with one fixed cross seat for 2 passengers and a space or compartment at the rear for carrying luggage." "Folding seats fitted into the luggage compartment are sometimes used" The type has 2 doors and a folding top with side curtains that are removable".

"Phaeton" (*) an open type body with two fixed cross seats for 4 or 5 passengers. Folding seats in the tonneau for 2 added passengers. The type has 4 doors and a folding top with side curtains that are removable".

"*Footnote--The reason for recommending the use of the term 'phaeton' instead of 'touring' is that the latter has lost its significance to any body type as all cars are used for touring. The term 'phaeton' is used extensively in Europe and to a considerable extent in America."

So, since the lowly Ford 1 door, 2 passenger body was approx. 100" wheelbase and not more, then "Runabout" from the early 1908 introduction to 1927 is proper IMO.

'Roadster' and 'Phaeton' is better for Lizzie's big sister the Model A.

And since 'phaeton' is too high brow for the 3 door two seat open Lizzie, let us all stick with "Touring" on that body style too :-)


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