Thinking about gearing

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Thinking about gearing
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - West Melbourne Florida on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 04:25 pm:

Im thinking about putting one of the new Warfords in my car. Right now my average cruising speed is around 35 mph. I'd like to be able on long straight stretches of road be able to bump that up 40 or 45 mph and still keep my engine rpm's low but high enough to not overwork the engine. Most of my driving here in florida is flat going. With my Ruckstell rear would it be possible to maintain 45 mph with a Warford transmission? Would pay to change my stock gearing to 3.1 gearing in the rear end or would this over kill and still give me plenty of power in city driving at 25 to 35 mph? Im still in the thinking stage of this but just looking for ideas. If I do this I won't be doing this until next summer when it gets too hot down here to drive the T


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 04:40 pm:

For primarily flatland touring, consider a 12 tooth pinion in your Ruckstell. Would drop the RPM some in Direct drive but not be as much of a strain as full 3 to 1 gearing. I don't see a need for both a Ruckstell and Warford in the same relatively stock car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 04:50 pm:

google "mtfca: warford" There are a LOT of conversations about gearing and Warfords that have been posted on this forum over the last few years. Some people like to spend their time shifting others like to just drive. I think I would go with different ratio in the Ruckstell or get rid of it and just go with the Warford, not both.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Spainhower - Portland, Oregon on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 05:38 pm:

Keep in mind that gear-trains are not 100% efficient. Every gear translation you go through robs a percentage of the engine's horsepower.

I've driven T's with the common ratios - 4:1, 3.64:1, 3.25:1, and 3:1 in various body styles and loads. I've also driven a Warford-equipped car on a multi-day trip. By far and away, I recommend 3.25:1 (12/39) gears. I have those in my '15 Touring, and it will do 40-45 all day long. It'll go over 50, but it gets both noisy and scary that fast in a Model T.

The other advantage with 3.25 gears (in a Ruckstell) is that it's quiet. The Warford I drove had a pretty loud constant whine in overdrive. Just my 2.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, November 20, 2016 - 06:27 pm:

The NEW Warfords Will is contemplating are not noisy. They are a delight to use and the ratios are well set for easy touring and the overdrive will let the car run down the road. In my shooting brake with the heavy wooden body and a load of passengers, I need ideal conditions to be able to use the overdrive. The great thing is the car can be driven in the stock manner if that is what rows your boat.

My new roadster has the 3:25 rear end ratio in a Ruckstel. This is ideal in a light car, but there is a compromise with the standard braking. I am contemplating a set of AC accessory brakes to help.

Of the two setups, I would chose the new Warford with the greater flexibility and easier changing.
Both work much better with a foot throttle.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 10:10 am:

Will,

I have a 26 Tudor with the new Warford and standard 3.63 to 1 gearing. No Ruckstell, as with the Warford I feel you don't need it. Maintaining 45 is and should be no problem see http://www.texastparts.com/mm5/manuals/WarfordRPMChart.pdf So if you want the Warford, you could sell your Ruckstell and install a standard rear end. Also, if you purchase the Warford from Layne Machine works http://www.laynemachine.com/Products.html I believe they will shorten your drive shaft for you. If you contact them direct you can find out for sure. Then all you need to do is shorten the radius rods.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 11:15 am:

The Tulsa club did some comparison runs to see how various gear ratios performed in the car. Surprisingly the car did not go faster when a 3.00 ratio was substituted for the stock ratio. It simply accelerated slower.

http://mtfctulsa.com/Tech/power_and_torque.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie Spokane, WA on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 11:19 am:

A stock Model T with aluminum pistons and 3.63 gearing should be able to go 45 mph all day long and not feel like it is going to self-destruct. In fact, Montana 500 cars, which are essentially stock, will go 55 mph all day long. A properly running T with 3.63 gears and two speeds is a joy to drive. I've had T's with auxiliary transmissions and find shifting them to be tedious. Some people claim to like to do extra shifting, so your experience may vary on this.

As mentioned above, extra gearing robs a significant amount of horsepower. Also, driving power through a u-joint at a sharp angle robs horsepower.

My advice would be to spend your money on properly rebuilding your motor and stick to 3.63 gears, which I think are the best ratio for average driving, all things considered.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 11:27 am:

My personal opinion is do not gear high with any setup. The weak crankshaft does not take torque well. My mark E over and under runs best with straight through and stock gearing all most all the time. Overdrive lugs the engine. Under drive is sometimes used up or down very steep hills in addition to disc brakes. In tune my 22 with a Z head does over fifty.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 11:33 am:

I totally agree with Paul and Tom on this philosophy. Lugging a T engine is dangerous to the crank in my opinion!! That you live on flatland at sea level, a 12 tooth pinion in your Ruckstell "might " be worth trying and a lot cheaper and easier than a Warford


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 03:02 am:

Std 3.64:1 gears gives 40 rpm per mph in high. 3:1 about 32 rpm per mph. T engines tends to have a rpm band where the engine vibrates more and would probably tend to kill the crank from metal fatigue if left there for a too long period.

My primitive pickup is a light car with a strong engine. It both accelerates and brakes well with 3:1, but it has vibrations in the 39-42 mph area. That translates to 1250-1350 rpm. No problem to go 45-55 mph, neither any problem driving 25-35, but if I'm stuck behind someone who drives straight 40, I have to slow down or pass. Different engines may have other vibration areas, and with a 3.64:1 rear axle this would be at 31-34 mph with my engine. (It has the slightly stiffer '24-'27 style crank.)


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