Sold my 1919 speedster to free up funds and space to buy this 1923 T runabout. A pretty solid and complete pretty original car, it's what I've been seeking for years. It's shown here being dropped off at our house in Rochester, NY. The house and garage were both built in 1919.
Engine is free but had no compression whatsoever until later the next day when I removed the head and did some preliminary work. Had original head bolts with the dimples. Seats are original as is most of the wiring. Body has 95% paint with even spattering of mostly superficial rust except for the hood, which was stored in a different location. I'd like to hear from anyone who has a good solid low hood with slight rust and original paint that might match the rest of the patina of this car.
Good looking car Mark. Make it safe and drive is your plan then?
Here is what I found when I removed the head. An assortment of seeds, nuts and kibble ... and a spark plug nut! After alternate spraying of penetrating oil and light tapping with a plastic mallet .. the 4 stuck exhaust valves seated and everything works fine on the upper end. I'll remove the engine to do further inspections of the rods, crank and main bearings, but the cylinders are clean as a whistle and no ridges on the upper end. Will replace the two piece valves and install adjustable tappets. Amazing condition.
You won't find cylinder ridges on a T engine, as the top piston ring stops flush with the edge of the cylinder. Nice Car!
Here is the same engine block 20 minute later. Couldn't help myself. It was a high of 69 degrees on Saturday ... and this morning we have a foot of snow. No heat in my garage. I only used a putty knife and some mystery oil and a rag to do this preliminary cleaning. I'll clean it up better once I've removed the valves and pistons.
Like you "new" T Mark. That's the sort of T I like also. Any more pictures?
John, I took lots of reference pictures and I'll take more of various details. It is a June 1923 engine. Car has oil side lights, but a starter and generator which I suppose could have been added later. Has a low original radiator with a steel fire wall. Has original upholstery and inside panels as well as original floor boards. Spring shackles are the old L style rather than U style. The tire rack on the running board is clearly an accessory.
I am anxious to hear from other '23 owners because from what I see it is an interesting transition year.
Interesting Ed. Is that the same with replacement aluminum pistons in a T?
your description fits our '23 to a "T" (I couldn't resist).
Seriously, though, we each have the same car, it seems. Down to month of mfg.
Car is in Wy and I am in FL, so cannot provide any photos beyond what I documented during the rewooding of the car...
Congratulations on your New Ford! It looks really nice.
With only one photo of the entire car to go on, there is lots still to learn. But noticing the demountables with the side mounted spare tire holder I suspect your car may have originally come with non-demountable wheels. How can you tell for sure? You probably cannot. But IF the car originally came with the demountable wheels it also would have come with a spare tire carrier on the back of the car. That could have been removed if the previous owner used the car with a pickup bed to transport a traveling medicine show as the carrier would have been in the way of loading and unloading the pickup ;). If you look under the rear of the car, are there any signs that a spare tire carrier had ever been installed on the frame? -- OK I should have asked when it was still warm up there. From the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/97650.html?1247530429 the following items were posted:
The picture above is from the Model T Ford Service book page 12 Fig 40 showing what I believe is the typical USA 1922-1925 part numbers 2870B and 2871B brackets bolted to the frame. The letter B in the photo is pointing to the tail lamp wiring which we are not discussing but it shows the spare rim carrier nicely.
The picture above is from the Model T Ford Service book page 16 Fig 51 with the B and arrows showing the 4 bolts that hold on one side (in this case the 2817B left side) of the spare rim bracket to the frame. (Ignore letter A it is not related to the spare tire carrier.)
If it originally had the demountable rims from the factory that carrier would have originally been bolted to the frame. I would suspect you will see some marks showing where the carrier was against the frame and where the bolts were touching the inside of the frame if it originally had the demountable rims from the factory.
Again great looking runabout.
Hap l9l5 cut off
In some cases, we will never know for sure if a car came equipped with the side lamps because it was originally a non-starter and non-generator car and those electrical items were added later. Or if the car originally came with the starter and generator and the side lamps were added later.
But some items to look for:
1. Magneto powered headlights.
2. Headlight dimmer resistance coil instead of an amp meter.
3. Magneto powered horn.
4. And of course the wiring for those would be different from the starter generator cars that by 1923 powered the horn from the battery as well as the lights.
Again a great looking runabout.
Hap l9l5 cut off
The car had a small ammeter with a reduction mount. Unfortunately it did not have a horn or bracket. My '19 had magneto lights and horn and that whacky combo horn and light switch. This has the standard light switch on the dash and the typical horn button. Headlights have a double socket in the rear.
I have never had a T with a starter and generator, so that is new territory for me. I have limited funds so will run it without ... and hand crank for starting since that's what I'm use to. Will add the generator and starter a little later.
Would you please confirm if your car currently has block off plates or if it has a starter and generator? Or you can just wait until you post some additional photos and that will show that also.
If it has the block off plates that fits with it being a non-generator non-starter car from the beginning. The amp meter doesn't fit that -- but I'm just trying to understand this one better.
Note in 1921 Ford discontinued the switch on the coil box for the non-start cars and all the cars now had the ignition & light switch on the dash. The starter equipped ones came with the amp meter and the non-starter with the block off plate on the dash and a headlamp resistance coil behind it.
I can relate to the limited "old car funds" more than I would like. But we can still have a lot of fun with a Ford on a low budget. Again, great looking car.
Hap l9l5 cut off