Ethanol - I heard a couple things.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Ethanol - I heard a couple things.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 05:22 pm:

Many threads discussing ethanol concerns in the gas supply. There's a website someone linked to that shows Ethanol Free fuel suppliers by location. But it also seems that this gas is well north of $12 per gallon. Ouch.

What I heard - I hope it's worth repeating. Small engine repair guy today lamenting the plastic carb floats that replace brass. He says it's necessary because the ethanol is eating the solder joints on brass floats. Has anyone else heard this? Sounds at least a little significant to me.

He also mentioned that the ONLY fuel treatment for ethanol based gas is the one made by StarTron which is sold through Marine Supply shops. Some sort of enzyme is the key.


Again - just passing along what I heard in case it's meaningful or helpful to anyone. I certainly welcome any dissenting opinions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 05:25 pm:

The only experience, so far, I've had with ethanol gas giving trouble was in my lawnmower, and a string trimmer.

The carbs had to be disassembled and cleaned out. Using ethanol gas isn't the problem, really, it's the storage of it inside the fuel system.

Whenever we sell an engine driven pump, I stress to the customer that ethanol gas is fine if it doesn't "sit up" in the fuel system more than about a week.

Ethanol-Free gas is better, but the best is 100LL Avgas.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 05:33 pm:

in Minnesota you can go to the MSRA web. they have a fairly comprehensive list.

I only use ethical free in my T and yard equipment. before switching over exclusively I would have to rune up the mower and snowblower annually. now I can go years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 05:49 pm:

We can get non-Oxy premium in Minnesota. Around Minneapolis, it's usually 50 to 70 cents more per gallon than E10 premium. Don't know where you are getting your $12/gallon figure - I can't believe that is true.

Per Minnesota law, it has specified use that includes collector vehicles and anything with a small engine.

It's readily available in the Twin Cities. For example, there's one gas station four blocks north of me and another four blocks south of me that sell it.

I use non-oxy in my lawnmower and snowblower. E10 caused carb problems even though I drained the fuel systems and ran them dry at the end of the season. Don't have those problems since I made it a point to use non-oxy.

(Message edited by Erik_johnson on November 21, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 06:09 pm:

I bet if you buy the little cans at home Depot it is close to $12 a gallon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 06:46 pm:

Just draining the tank and running the carburetor dry is not enough. There is still just enough gas left in the bowl to crud things up so I have started to take the bowl off. Just be careful not to break the gasket or else keep a couple of extra gaskets on hand. We can finally get non-ethanol gas in Florida for about a 45 cent premium but it is well worth it. Unfortunately, you can't get it in down state New York thanks to the environmental Nazis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Sommers on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 07:36 pm:

I only use non-ethanol gas in my '13. I don't know if it helps, but it is something that I want to do... plus it is better that the 50 octane gas of 100 years ago. I use a site to find locations that sell non ethanol gas. I would suggest going to http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=MN for your area.

Given the investment in your car, this is just a little way to pamper him.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 07:43 pm:

2 problems with ethanol fuel and one goes for regular fuel too. That is leaving fuel in the tank/carb too long. You might get the unit running 4 or 6 months later but the stuff is way past it's "best used" date. Small engine manufacturers to a man state 90 days for fresh/usable fuel. Forget additives. They do not work. The second thing with ethanol is it will dissolve the "varnish" left behind by regular fuel turning it into a white powder like substance. Regular fuel will not dissolve it's own varnish. If it ran when you drained it it'll run again next season when you put in fresh fuel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 09:20 pm:

I use Star Tron additive in my gas for mowers, chain saws and T's. no trouble with the ethanol in the last five years. Not promoting the product and have no connections to the company, just saying what has worked for me. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 09:36 pm:

In California they don't sell any non ethanol gas nor any leaded gas. There is also a different blend for summer and for winter. So far I haven't had a problem with my T's but the gas will leave a varnish like substance when it evaporates. I quit using a gas air compressor weed cutter and chain saw because I didn't drain them and they won't start.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 09:36 pm:

Has anyone seen the ethanol attacking solder joints? That was a new one for me. But, 6 years ago trying to fix a carburetor in my uncle's 1926 Seagraves firetruck, we identified a hole in the brass carb float. No idea how a hole can happen, but now with the solder claim, I'm thinking that might be a potential cause.

Michael Sommers - that's the link that I'd seen and where I saw the big prices for non-ethanol. I'm in Connecticut. Basically same as downstate NY. When I look at any of the sources even remotely close to where I am, there are comments (less than a year old) reporting availability in 1 and 5 gallon containers and $12-$15 / gallon. Absurd.

And Keith from TN, I've used a variety of things in my boat to help "fix" the ethanol. Sea Foam and Sta-Bil get good reports. But the guy who owns a small engine / landscape supply shop was very specific about StarTron. And he, like I don't have any connection with StarTron. Just passing along what I've heard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Monday, November 21, 2016 - 11:00 pm:

We have non ethanol, and I try to use in my power equipment and old cars. It's worth the because most of the time I only burn out a few gallons at a time. So this way I run it empty and have less worries of a bummed up carb... Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 07:20 am:

Charlie,

Despite nearly every state selling non-enthanol gas in one form or another, each state still has its own regulations governing its sale. In Maryland for example, you will find it at small engine shops in small cans. Great for your lawn equipment, but not practical in cost for your T.

In Connecticut, where it appears that you live, the ethanol free fuel appears to be sold in the forum of high octane racing fuel. This may explain the premium your seeing.

I can get ethanol free 87, 89, and 91 at the pump in PA for about .50 cents more per gallon. Well worth for the reduced maintenance costs over time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 07:24 am:

http://www.pure-gas.org


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 07:55 am:

I think the attack on solder joints is probably just hype and the ridiculous prices quoted must be for some small canned quantity or maybe race fuel as said above. Several stations around me have a dedicated pump for ethanol free gad. Yes it costs more. I don't recall how much, but the 50 cent estimate above sounds about right. I use it in stuff that is going to sit. I also add Stabil to it. I'm sure some of you think that's a waste, but all I know is that my lawn mower will crank in the Spring if it sits with non-ethanol and Stabil over the Winter. During the Summer, I run regular E-10 because I know it will not sit more than a couple of weeks before having to use it again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Adkisson on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 08:04 am:

I had ethanol laced gas in a can from January till May while I was traveling. Put it in a piece of equipment and it shut down immediately...poured some of the siphoned out gas on cardboard and a propane torch would not get it to burn!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 08:14 am:

around here in Sunny Florida the ethanol free stuff is about $2.25 per gallon, Charlie you can come visit me and get the good stuff.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 08:15 am:

Yea the canned gas would be 20 bucks a gallon at 5 a quart from Walmart. In the 40 to 1 mixed. I actually suggest it to some folks who I know are to stubborn to mix their fuel right and use non ethanol.
The trouble I have had with running some machines out of fuel for storage is there will be just a dab of gas in the bottom of the float bowel. The float will sit in it, the fuel will jell up, the float is hung with the needle open, and when refueled in the spring gas goes everywhere.And depending on the type of engine,even into the crankcase oil.Not good.
I will say this for Honda and the chinese clone engines. They have a screw on the bottom of the bowel that allows Complete drainage of the fuel system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Sommers on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 08:33 am:

I live just North of Kansas City, MO and the cost on non-ethanol gas is about 10 to 12 cents more per gallon, than 87 octane regular. A small price to pay.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 08:47 am:

I've used ethanol fuel in my T's wife's Caddy, F 150, lawn mower's, power generator for years without any problem. On small engines and my T's, I run them dry of fuel before I put um up. Not saying fuel stabilizers don't help but....... Just my experience.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 09:56 am:

There are certain areas in PA where it's not available at all due to the air quality zone in which one lives. In the Philadelphia metro area non-ethanol is not permitted to be sold. It seems wherever that is the case, emission inspections are also a requirement. It was a pleasant surprise to move out of the Philadelphia area and learn there are counties where emission inspections are not required. Saves a lot of annual hassle and expense.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 11:03 am:

Not sure why, but I've never had a problem with the ethanol infused gas I get at my local station up the street. I use it in all my gas-powered engines and have never had any problems, even after it's sat for months. Last week I needed to use my little chainsaw, which started right up with old gas after sitting since early spring (8 months) when I had filled it up and used it. Haven't found the need to use any stabilizers, or to drain or clean any fuel systems yet in any of my gas-powered engines. Harley, Homelite, B&D, Model T - no problems in any of them, even after months of sitting without fresh fuel. Guess I'm the lucky one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 11:13 am:

Here in Calif I removed a fuel tank from a 39 Buick to fix a 4 year old fuel gauge. The brass float was GONE. it had rotted completely away while the car was sitting for 2 years. I have also fueled up my lawn tractor at a cheapie gas station and put it to work an hour later. It quit running after 30 min because the flexible fuel line turned to mush and collapsed. We only have one type of gas around here...overpriced and low quality. I know that sounds like two types but it all rolled into one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gustaf in Idaho on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 11:19 am:

Not all gasohol uses ethanol, methanol is also used. It is important not to combine the two types of alcohol fuels as it can cause phase separation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 11:26 am:

Non ethanol premium 93 octane is $2.79 where available in Alabama - Texas - Mississippi - Louisiana where I stopped to fuel over the past few weeks

On the Jersey Turnpike - some rest area stations dispense ethanol from a standalone pump because it is so corrosive to fuel dispensing equipment.

Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 11:46 am:

Here's what I do to combat the ethanol in my gas. I put it in my T and burn it. No troubles. No worries.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 12:15 pm:

I haven't read all the above, but we all need to worry about RUBBER. Ethanol attacks many types of rubber. There's lots about it on VW websites but the punch line is that ANY old rubber in the fuel system should be replaced by new tubing marked SAE J30 R9 (not R6).
Better still, only have metal piping, as supplied by Henry!
Rubber washers in fuel taps will also be vulnerable.
I know of two Ts in a garage burnt out because old rubber tubing leaked and something ignited the spilt fuel.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 12:28 pm:

I wish the non-ethanol were available in my area in 93 octane. If it were, I'd use it in my wife's '67 Mustang. It does not get driven a lot, and sits for months sometimes. So far, I've not had to remove the carb and do any cleaning, but it wouldn't surprise me if I did sometime. It pings on anything but 93 octane (And NO, I'm not going to retard the timing just to make it run on 87). The only ethanol free we have around here is 87. I'm not afraid of E-10 in anything that gets driven regularly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 01:06 pm:

> In California they don't sell any non ethanol gas nor any leaded gas.

That is true unless you go to a station that sells non-ethanol or leaded fuel. The pure-gas website lists 19 dispensers in California who market non-ethanol fuel. I would have to go over 80 miles to get mine.

As for leaded fuel I have to go about ten miles to get that. Almost every airport in the state sells 100LL. I bought a bucket of that a while ago to test out in the Subaru engine in my gyroplane. I believe that 100 octane Low Lead fuel is ethanol free. The State fuel nazis can tell if you are running 100LL on the street because it is dyed blue. "They" don't know how to tell if you are running a catylic converter, the 100LL is illegal for street use because it will kill a catylitic converter.

BTW, when I was done testing my engine with 100LL I used up the leftover fuel in my model T!

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 01:48 pm:

Bet it didn't ping.:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Skip Anderson, Bloomington, MN. on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 02:25 pm:

Rubber and ethanol a definite no no. Had to put 5 gal of ethanol laced crap in my '62 Vette after a late night run a few years ago. Long story, but had to replace the fuel pump (diaphragm was mush) three fuel line hose connections and the 2-inch rubber fill hose. Expensive, dumb mistake on my part. And when the fuel pump failed about five gallons of gas went across the garage floor and into the basement. Lucky I didn't blow the house up. Lesson learned


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Tuesday, November 22, 2016 - 04:18 pm:

Old fuel lines in boats aren't ethanol proof. Source of plenty of boat fires. I think it has to be quite old and well before ethanol was common or required. But if you have an old boat it's good to get them checked out.

I'm worried sometimes about gas fumes in my garage, like after the carb has leaked a little (I've got that problem fixed). It's a detached garage and sometimes my brain starts thinking what if... Enough fumes build up and then I hit the garage door opener switch and whoosh....


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