Open Driveshaft

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Open Driveshaft
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Cooper on Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 08:28 pm:

Has anyone run an open driveshaft with no torque tube?

I am building a +/- 1916 speedster with a 1926 engine and a Ruckstell Rear end and new square tube shortened frame.

Any help appreciated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 08:37 pm:

I know it has been done but I can't remember by who. This would be one of those things that someone does to prove they can do it. I believe it would require a huge amount of engineering and precision machining, for what could not be any great benefit. The T drives through the torque tube, not the spring. You would still have to have radius rods. Why not put some open drive line modern rear end under it? Oh, welcome to the forum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 11:01 pm:

I had a Waterious model t fire engine. This was a 1923 on a passenger car chassis. The fire pump was driven by an open drive shaft.

They drove the engine to the fire with an open drive shaft. When they arrived at the fire there was a shift lever to disconnect the drive shaft and slip into place the drive shaft for the fire pump.

The fire engine had an open drive shaft. The radius rods were quite stout and special made nothing like a stock t .

So it was done with positive results.

just sayin'

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 10:16 am:

A huge task indeed! If that was done there would be NO support for the rear end.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Elliott on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 10:23 am:

I have a speedster with a C4 automatic with an open drive line. The universal joint at the rear end is done very well and not to hard to duplicate. I'm not at my summer home at this time so I will not be able to get any pictures or information for you. I will do this if you want my information when I get back to my summer address. Tom


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 10:29 am:

Tom
I would really appreciate those pictures as I have project that has a 4 speed and also one with a automatic. I'll send you a PM, then all the "purists " can avoid getting excited


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 10:31 am:

They'd have to be stout indeed. I believe the rad. rods on a T are for tracking & adjusting the tracking of the rear axle. They serve no real power transmission purpose. I do believe that appropriate tracking bars would be available today but Lordy the mods and lack of any plusses to doing this is beyond belief. In fact and entire drive train swap might not add much more to do as securing the rear end.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 10:47 am:

Rear axle swaps are common on hot rods (which is what you will have if you do it). With the transverse semi-elliptical spring, there is no side-to-side movement issue; the real issue is power (thrust) transmission to the frame of the car. The axle can be bracketed to a radius rod that attaches to a bracket mounted to the frame with either a Heim joint or a modern tie-rod end. The engineering will be to determine where on the frame the bracket can be located that won't weaken the frame. Since you are dealing with very low horsepower and a light car, this shouldn't be too difficult. Put on your Hot Rod hat, with a square tube frame, you are not building a model T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 11:40 am:

The T rear axle was built the way it is for the purpose of keeping the drive shaft perpendicular to the rear axle. The other makes which use an open driveshaft have a built in support in the casting which keeps things in alignment. You could use an open driveshaft if you used a different rear axle made for the purpose. You also have a problem with the transverse spring. There is no back to front support or twisting support unless you have the radius rods. Many of the hot rods use a completely different frame and drivetrain. They just fit a Model T body to it.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 12:06 pm:

One of the options I have considered is connecting the T torque tube (shortened) to the "tailshaft" of the "other " transmission.
Considering I have a Fronty pan conversion for a T block (era accessory), it adds to the mix.
Ron
Not sure what transmission you are thinking about, but I do have on hand a cast aluminum adapter and a fresh rebuilt C3 Ford transmission from the '80's that can fit to your T block. I've sold a number of these adapters over the years. It accepts any Ford transmission that fits a 2.9 liter and smaller engine.
One option I've seen done is a Borg Warner T5 from a 2.3 but with a Jeep output shaft,all fitted to the T torque tube. Just food for thought!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Richmon - Richmond, VA on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 01:00 pm:

Here's the setup I run with a Ford C4 automatic and a Borg Warner overdrive in the driveline. Anything can be done, but that light weight T reared is pretty fragile if not supported properly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Richmon - Richmond, VA on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 01:05 pm:

One more pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 01:59 pm:

Very nice, Bob!

I think I see room for one more transmission....

pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 02:45 pm:

Bob
I would appreciate a LOT more pictures and details please
Also please about your front and rear brakes
Thank you for posting


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 09:58 pm:

Yes, Please post and tell us more about those Brakes!! Especially the Fronts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays Kansas on Tuesday, November 29, 2016 - 08:25 am:

I now have my fathers Speedster. When he built it he put a model A trans in it....yes a lot of work. Model A torque tub on the front end of a T torque tube. One day he sailed thru an intersection having got it stuck in neutral. He then spent a year putting a pinto 4 speed in it. At one point before he changed the rear end to one from a Mustang he bent the radius rods taking off to fast(open driveshaft with stock T rear end). It does have a Roof single port on it. It now has better brakes and a live driveshaft. This will all be for sale as when I redo the car next year it will be going back in time to 20's era Muncie and a 26/7 rear end with external brakes. If there had been in the mid 80's the new Layne transmission he could have had the car back on the street in less than two weeks and not for much difference in cost. He did like to make stuff like.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Richmon - Richmond, VA on Tuesday, November 29, 2016 - 09:26 am:

Brakes are Nash Metropolitan, popular conversion both front & rear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Tuesday, November 29, 2016 - 09:38 am:

Since the objective seems to be to have a T speedster-appearing car with an improved driveline, why not go for safety, reliability, and ease of securing replacement parts? I haven't measured rear axle widths, but perhaps a Pinto or Falcon differential/rear axle would be about the correct width. After final positioning of whatever you choose to use as a transmission, you can have a driveshaft made. I suggest "The Driveshaft Specialist" in San Antonio, TX. It's not as expensive as you think - you can even get an aluminum shaft as I have in my non-Chevy-powered Chevy tow vehicle. The pivot point for the radius rods should be (ideally) at the centerline of the driveshaft's front universal joint. You now have hydraulic rear brakes and a real, working parking brake. This sounds like a fun project!


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