Some photos from my engine - comments welcomed

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Some photos from my engine - comments welcomed
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 10:19 pm:

I've posted a couple threads about the various engine issues I'm learning how to deal with. The latest issue was me breaking off the spark plug and having all the threads buried in the block. Lots of options and I tried a couple, but with no results. So, I removed the head. I've read quite a bit on the steps for head removal / replacement.

Now that the head is off, I wanted to post photos and ask for any commentary / discussion about these.


The hood support doesn't appear to be threaded and thus the support is only resting in there. Is this normal?


After running the engine for 5-10 minutes, I turned it off and drained the oil. I poured the first quart of oil into a funnel with a clear hose. The idea is to identify any water that's getting into the oil.


This is something I noticed in the very front of the engine. That shaft looks damp, coated in brown. Is this a normal?


Cylinder #1


Cylinder 2


Cylinder 3


Cylinder 4


Cylinder 1 (Head) NOTE - The remains of my spark plug visible from the bottom. Off to a machine shop (engine specialist) tomorrow to have that fixed.


Cylinder 2 (Head)


Cylinder 3 (Head)


Cylinder 4 (Head)

And last - the head bolts. They were CRUDDY. I'm planning to use a bottoming tap to clean the threads. Is there anything about these threads that indicates a bigger problem elsewhere?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 11:10 pm:

Charlie, the radiator steady rod is threaded into the fitting on the radiator. It should have a locknut on it to stop the rod 'working' in the threaded fitting and wearing off the threads.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 11:17 pm:

Yes, the radiator should have threads for the support rod to screw into.

Oil on the crankshaft means the seal is leaking, but if it's a minor leak you can leave it alone until you have to pull the engine for something else.

After running your tap down the bolt holes, blow out all the loose debris. When the head is clean and ready to install, set it on the block without the gasket and run in the bolts. If they touch the head the holes are deep enough and it's OK to slather Copper Coat on the gasket and install the head. Pay close attention to the sizes of the water passage holes at the ends of the gasket. It's easy to get the thing in backwards.

Torque to 50, run the engine, torque again, run the engine, torque again.


(Message edited by steve_jelf_parkerfield_ks on November 27, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 11:46 pm:

Here's Murray Fahnestock's diagram of bolt tightening order.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Sunday, November 27, 2016 - 11:52 pm:

Sorry Stev, wrong.
Aluminium head, only re-tighten head bolts after the engine is stone cold. Make sure the bolts have a flat washer under them, anti-sieze on the threads and I only use a ring spanner to tighten head bolts on a T, very easy to strip a block thread.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 09:10 am:

Stone cold for cast iron too. What's the point of torquing a hot eng/head which will decrease in size a bit as it cools and throw off the torque setting you just did and leading to leaks?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 09:43 am:

The support on the radiator is probably stripped out. That's the reason the support rod wont tighten up when its screwed into the support. You can use some steel wool or teflon tape on the end of the rod to help stabilize it in the hole and use a nut to keep it tight. Of course the best thing to do is to solder on another one with good threads.

Then there is JB Weld. You could fill the hole up with JB Weld and use a piece of tape to hold it in while it hardens. Then you can use a tap to tap it out to the correct size. That will work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 09:49 am:

Steve - a single word has reminded me of a question I've wanted to ask. "Slather". I've got the new copper gasket, and "Copper Coat" in a spray can. Not sure how much slather is? A heavy spray coat? Or should I go find something that would brush on thicker. Also - apply to both sides I assume (but asking because I don't want to assume).

I used Permatex Indianhead Gasket Shellac compound for the gasket on my carburetor (the lawn mower one - I still need to build up the NH you sent. Not knowing what to do other than read directions, I applied it to both sides of the gasket as well as the carb and engine. Waited for it to get tacky then bolted together. Unless this is some forbidden material, I probably didn't hurt anything and I suspect it will work. Permatex directions say "For leak proof gaskets and threaded assemblies, apply a thin, even coat to both parts. Allow to dry, then assemble. Resists water, steam, petroleum products, and antifreeze."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 09:59 am:

Radiator steady rod. Looking at it, I assumed that it was threaded into the radiator. But when I was removing the head I saw it move. It appears to have zero resistance in there as “Allan from Downunder” feared - threads all worn away I suspect. What would you recommend? Drill out and use one of those thread inserts assuming I can find one with the right thread pattern for that rod?

I don't have any sort of brazing, welding equipment or knowledge, but could find someone who does. Would it be odd to braze/weld a nut of the right dimension right to the front of the piece already attached to the radiator? I'm imagining adding threads to the outside.

Ultimately, the easiest / simplest fix is my goal. I have to guess the the radiator not having that additional support is doing a number on the lower attachment points.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 10:03 am:

I would use a thread sert from MSC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Landry, Hudson, NH on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 10:03 am:

You should be able to put in a Helicoil to repair the stripped threads on the radiator. Invisible once installed and a lot easier than soldering on another fitting. Make sure to use a lock nut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 10:49 am:

If you put in a Helicoil or Thread Cert, I would suggest that you stabilize the radiator piece w/visegrips or otherwise so that the solder joint on the radiator doesn't get twisted loose when you're doing the tapping part.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 01:15 pm:

So as not to start a new thread. I ran my car for about 10-15 minutes (first time in over a month) with brand new oil in it. Then as mentioned somewhere on this forum I did the recommended "drain when hot after 15 minutes running time" as a way to help clean out the engine a bit.

The oil that came out didn't appear as new as I expected, but I think there's probably a lot of gunk in there, plus some coolant getting into the cylinders from the head which was way under torqued. Head off, new Gasket and the remounting instructions in hand. The car had a thermostat in the head when I took it off. I figure it should be replaced while I've got the head off. Reading in this forum has indicated strong opinions about thermostats. I have a water pump (came in the car), and my tendency is to stick with what someone smarter than I has done. Anyone know if the thermostat has to be from a T parts house or if I can do autozone / napa, etc? I'd prefer to avoid paying shipping equal to half the product cost.

Something odd showed up in the pan of the used oil drain pan I have. A carburetor needle. Looks in good shape, same style as the one I replaced in my carb because it was missing. I have no idea how that needle could get out of the carb and into the oil pan. Found a small washer too, but that could have been there for a long time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 28, 2016 - 01:57 pm:

If it were me, I would try removing the water pump and running without the pump and thermostat to see if the engine will run cool without them.

Regarding the carb needle, maybe a prior owner had things apart and strewn all over the place and didn't notice that the carb needle was sitting in the pan when he buttoned it back up. :-)


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