17" Ford wires on a speedster

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: 17" Ford wires on a speedster
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard E Moore Jr. Pickwick lake Tenn. on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 - 02:46 pm:

wanting to put juice brakes on a speedster and use 17" model a wire wheels. Will the calipers and rotors fit inside the A hub.
Need to find adaptors and maybe the adaptors will move the hub out beyond the wheel hub. Thanks in advance


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 - 03:13 pm:

Richard
Ford used 17" wheels on 33-34. Same bolt pattern from 28-48 on cars (except 36-38). Are you planning to use the A front axle? Or?
It is possible to put hydraulic drum brakes into the drum hubs that fit these wheels. The mechanical drum brakes work quite well too


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 - 03:15 pm:

Please realize that offsetting the wheels further from the kingpins impacts the steering stability in a negative way. I hope you have a "non reversing " steering box


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard E Moore Jr. Pickwick lake Tenn. on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 - 03:43 pm:

Les. I would like to put drum brakes on front and back. Are you talking about useing an A front axle. I'd like to stay with the T rear axle. Going to use a 26 steering box.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 - 04:16 pm:

I've seen it done by putting backing plates from some 70's(?) era Ford F150 on a 26 T rear end and also on the front spindles of a Model A front axle. Then use the F150 drums etc. all around. I was told it's not as much mod work as you might imagine. It was done and told to me by Bill Barth. He used the set-up on a couple of "V8 60" T conversions. Beautifully done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 - 05:23 pm:

Richard
On the A and later cars and I suspect all cars with front brakes there was a major change in front axle "geometry "!!
The kingpins were tilted in at the top so that a line extended from the center of the kingpins would contact the ground in the center of the "tire patch" (where the tire is contacting the ground). On the A the kingpins are tilted in at 9 degrees. The spindle is tilted at 2 degrees so the tires are actually leaning out slightly at the top. Another part of this was that the axle "caster" was reduced to about 1 degree. Of course this requires the tie rod ends to be "ball type ".
I spent considerable time and effort researching all this as I have installed mechanical front brakes on my '27 roadster. I "restyled " the T front axle to have the 9 degree kingpin tilt in and made new front spindles. Yes a considerable amount of work!! The plus is it now stops quite well and steers like a modern car both forwards and reverse.
The only other safe option in my opinion is to use a "non reversing " steering box.
It goes without saying that you need to "double " or "beef up" the radius rod. The ball socket has been proven by numerous front brake installations to be quite adequate in strength.
I know some people are running Nash Metropolitan front brakes and have retained the stock steering. These brakes don't require any change in wheel offset, but requires suitable care in holding onto the steering wheel when braking (two handed grip from my observations!!!)
So proceed as you wish but please understand the issues!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard E Moore Jr. Pickwick lake Tenn. on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 - 07:39 pm:

Thanks Les. I definitely am going to use a 5 to1 non reversing steering box and being this will be a speedster I plan on moving the steering wheel to the center of the car and leave the steering box where it is and drive the 2 shafts with a big cycle chain So by changing sprockets I can acheve any ratio I want. I was going to beef up the tie rods and horizontal link along with the pitman arm. I know that sounds wild but it's not a 60 mph car (unless I find that Rajo) I am going to run radious rods back to the frame outbound of the spring perches. Beehive shocks on the front and rear along with the friction shocks. I think with a reverse main spring and 17" tires with 4 1/2 " of tread on the ground I'm not even going to move the front axle forward or lower it Wheew. I cannot thank you enough for taking the Time to write back but I think we're on the same page. If I'm shooting myself in the foot feel free to tell me. I am going to lengthening the frame about 2 feet and moving the motor back.
I've got a ways to go yet and it's hard making my wife believe
I only pay pennies for all this stuff. Now I'm scared. 😳


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Emerson - California on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 12:28 am:

Richard, I recently purchased two Kelsey Hayes 17" wheels. They need to be blasted and painted or powder coated. Asking $180 plus shipping, for both. Good luck on your project.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 10:57 am:

Richard
Consider using 2 U joints for your steering offset. Readily available with "DD" style ends, which are easy to install.

The T steering box does not meet the definition of "non reversing ". Typically it needs to be a "worm" style.

Consider a model A through 35 front axle. I think it will be a lot easier, safer and make you happier in the end

And if you don't already have the wheels, I can fix you up with a nice set of 4 or 5 Ford welded spoke wheels


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sullivan on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 12:12 pm:

Les, when you did the mods to the T front axle geometry, did you use the stock T steering, and if so how did that work? Dave in Bellingham,WA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 02:48 pm:

David
Yes I did and it works great. By having the center line of the kingpins centered on the tire contact area, it eliminates the risk of "kick back " forces to the steering in the event of braking with one wheel on good traction and the other not


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard E Moore Jr. Pickwick lake Tenn. on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 03:25 pm:

Where did you find those u joints your speaking of. I'll look into the A axles. Was trying to stay as close as possiable to model T. Safety items excluded.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sullivan on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 08:25 pm:

Thank you, Les, that sounds good to me, as I'm trying to build one to drive. Dave in Bellingham, WA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 08:33 pm:

Speedway Automotive
Search "steering U joint 3/4" DD ends"
Any speed shop


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