Wood wheel felloe plates

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Wood wheel felloe plates
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 - 04:58 pm:

I'm curious. I see felloe plates listed in the catalogs with "H" or "P" embossed in them. Mine have "M" embossed. Who is M ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 - 08:17 pm:

She featured in the James Bond movies.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, November 30, 2016 - 08:23 pm:

Tommy,
Motor Wheel produced some of the wheels for the Model Ts. They are listed as supplying demountable wheels in the letter below:
From the online encyclopedia at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/U-Z.htm#wheels
In a letter to the Ford branches dated March 7, 1924, the following appeared:
Wheels and Rims

“The necessary changes have been made in the Kelsey wheel and rims also the Firestone and Cleveland rims so that with the exception of a few Kelsey wheels which are still to be shipped, we will have but one wheel and one rim for production, even though they are being shipped from three different sources. The felloe band on the Kelsey wheel has been changed so that it is exactly the same dimension as the Ford, Hayes, or Motor wheel and a car could be built with one wheel of each make. The rims have been changed to the ‘attached lug’ type and a car could be built using one rim of each Hayes, Kelsey, Motor Wheel, and Firestone.

Note that Motor Wheel is mentioned in that Mar 7, 1924 letter. That is specifically discussing the demountable rims and felloes all being made the same so the parts would interchange. But there is a reasonable chance that those same suppliers also made the non-demountable wheels for Ford. Or they could have made replacement non-demountable rim wheels for the Fords that were sold through Western Auto, Sears, etc.
Please let us know if the wheels you have are round felloe or square felloe. And if you could post a link to prior photos of them or post a photo of them that might be helpful. Also, are you sure it is an “M” and not a “W”?

So if it is an “M” my initial guess would be Motor Wheel – but that is just an initial guess at this point. Does anyone else have some wood felloe wheels with an embossed “M” on the joining plate? Or have other information on if it might have been supplied originally by Ford or on another car or aftermarket?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, December 01, 2016 - 02:09 am:

I think at some point, I had a wheel or two with an "M" on the felley join plates. It may have been on a car I sold many years ago. I need to go out and look closely at the '13 to make sure it is not on it on the side I can't get to easily. I have restored seven nondemountable round felley wheels in the past few months, some for the '15, one replacement for the '13, and a couple for the '12 project pile (if I live long enough, I may be able to use them).
Two of the wheels I did recently were Kelsey. 30 X 3 1/2. The join plates on them are a different shape than the common Hayes and Pruden wheels. However, I wouldn't bet that the wheels were for Ford originally. They were both on Ford front hubs, and had non-original bolts in them. Although the general size, shape, and fit, is identical to a model T rear wheel, I suspect they were off some other car originally. I know I have seen Kelsey join plates that had the same shape as the "H" & "P" plates.

In the "for what it is worth" department. I know that when I had an "M" wheel for a T, I surmised that it may have been Motor Wheel. I notice them because my Paige has Motor Wheel wheels, and it took years to find enough correct lugs for them.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, December 01, 2016 - 07:13 am:

Wayne,

Thank you for the input.

Also would you please confirm your Paige does not have a joining plate or if it does have one let us know if it has or doesn't have a letter on it? I assume it does not have a joining plate, but I know that you know the real answer.

The MTFCI Judging Guidelines 6th edition for the 1911-1920 model years list the joining plate as marked with an H, P, or K. The list them with "No markings" for 1909-10. They don't make any comment about any marking or lack of marking on the joining plates for 1921 and later.

Tommy -- would you please post a photo of your wheel and also of the "M" on the joining plate. It may not solve your question now, but it may prove helpful in the long term by posting the clues.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Thursday, December 01, 2016 - 09:12 am:

Allen...got a good chuckle there. Wish I could remember that stuff!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, December 01, 2016 - 09:55 am:

It is my understanding that Pruden was bought out by Motor Wheel at some point. I haven't ever seen an M on a round felloe wheel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, December 01, 2016 - 03:52 pm:

Hap, The Paige being a bit newer, has steel fellies and are demountable. No join plates. I have never figured out all the connections, and do not know about Pruden being involved, but I have read a few things in recent years that Motor Wheel and Jaxon were intermixed. My understanding is that they were separate companies for a time, but one company for awhile also. My understanding is that Pearlman was also involved in that mix. Ed Archer's number 4 has Pearlman wheels. Maybe those are what Larry S is remembering?
Jaxon made wood wheels in the '10s, but is better remembered for the steel disc wheels they made so many of in the '20s and early '30s. Motor Wheel made a variety of wood spoke wheels through the '20s. I don't know how many companies used them on cars? But they do not seem to be very common. Paige used them only on some models.

More and more, I find myself wishing I had spent a lot more time on computers years ago, and copied and filed more references than I did. It seems to be getting more difficult to sort things out from memory. And it is very difficult to simply post a verifiable reference out of my head. I have read a lot over the years, and try to pass along some of what I have learned along the way. I hope I don't pass along too much misinformation.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Thursday, December 01, 2016 - 04:17 pm:

According to an article in the Michigan State University archives, Motor Wheel Corporation was formed in 1920, the result of a merger between Prudden Wheel Company and Gier Pressed Steel and Auto Wheel.

That may be a little late for wooden felloe non-demountable wheel manufacture, but who knows ?

My 1922 Packard 126 has Motor Wheel artillery wheels, they are interesting because of the way they are made. The wooden spokes are formed at the felloe end into a dome profile which presses into dimples in the steel felloe. Of course in most wheels the spoke is formed into a square-shouldered tenon which passes all the way through the steel felloe, exposing the end-grain of the spokes in that space between the felloe and the demountable rim, where often mud, water, and snow accumulates. I'd reckon this design made for longer wheel life in hard-using environments.

I have seen Motor Wheel Corp. wheels on Model Ts, identifiable mainly by this method of construction.

I know . . . this doesn't help a bit solving the mystery of felloe plates marked with "M".


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