Pouring Babbitt part 2

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Pouring Babbitt part 2
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 12:48 pm:

With this part 2 I am willing to start the second part of pouring Babbitt.
Here is the link to the first part of the Babbitt job.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/697083.html?1480569711

First of all I am willing to thank you all for your opinion of pouring Babbitt in a model T motor block, Thanks also at all the people that send PM trying to help us. We will try it out and let you know how it went.

Next job will be pouring Babbitt in the main bearing caps and the rods. We tried a few but most of the Babbitt had no solid fusion with the tin or the cap. By taking out the Babbitt with a chisel there are black spots on the cap and in the back of the Babbitt.
I wonder what did go wrong. Is it the cleaning of the parts? How to do this right?? Is it the way the tin was done? Does the cap and the Babbitt have the right temperature? What is the right temperature?
You see a lot of questions that need answers.
I hope we will find some of you to walk us through this.
Thanks
Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 03:53 pm:

First some questions from this end may help,
what type of moulds are you using,
what type of sealer,
what are you heating with?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 04:44 pm:

Frank, here three photos of the tryout.

The moulds are the one sold by Lang. The heating of the cap is done with a gas torch. The type of sealer I don't know but it is used on the car body before getting lead on the steel.
The Babbitt is heated in an electric cup that stay heating when pouring.
On the photo of the cap you can see that on side has a good connection and the other side has a gap between the cap and the Babbitt.

Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 10:14 pm:

Andre, sent you a PM.
Erik


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gene french on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 03:11 am:

Andre:
the poor adhesion would be due to an improper or incomplete "tinning" and pre-heat ...the mold type you are using is a copy of my design mainbearing mold ...if this was sold to you by langs then i would expect that they should be able to answer any questions regarding the proper use and correct procedure involved in babbitting ...i think that i had e-mailed you a file with my procedure sheets several months back ...these will give the necessary details regarding pre-heat with my design molds...always an optimist ...Gene Frencht maint main 1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 03:56 am:

Gene, send you a PM
Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 08:23 am:

They make a flush cutting battery powered saw used for flush cutting wood trim next to a floor or other surface. I was not impressed watching my block saddles trimmed down with a dull tool driving from the edge to the middle for excess Babbitt, then taking down closer to the block face with a wood rasp and not cleaned up very well for a fit between the cap and the block shims.

My question is what method do other folks use?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gene french on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 11:56 am:

Paul:
i cut the spru out by "marking" in several places around the base of the babbitt spru with a sharp wood chisel ...then tap the spru to break off at these marks ...regarding the parting line ...i draw file , then block sand with 80 grit wet/dry sandpaper to make these surfaces flush to the iron block or steel caps ...if mold is bolted to block or caps then there will not be much material to remove ...always an optimist...Gene French
P.S.: Andre...i sent a e-mail with the procedure sheets to your personal e-mail address


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 08:22 pm:

Thanks gene, I picked up a new Dremel saw today at a hock shop for 36. with the blades. between my heat indicating gun that's very accurate and the Dremel I am into it under 80. I will check tomorrow but the saw should slice Babbitt with ease.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gene french on Sunday, December 04, 2016 - 11:31 am:

Andre':
i sent another email this morning ...and for general info. regarding checking the pre-heat temps. ...i use Tempil sticks , these are pyrometer sticks that are available in 25 deg. F . increments ...i use a 400 deg. F. stick to check the mold core and area adjacent to the pour ...this is simple and inexpensive and accurate ...a uniform pre-heat is important as is the temperature ...also there is no benefit in excessive heat and is in extreme cases actually harmful to the process...for anyone interested i can send the info. packet for my design tools ...this is specific to my tools and may differ from other designs ...it is also important that the procedures for a specific tool be followed ...in most cases any of the existing design babbitting fixtures will perform their intended jobs IF the manufacturers process is followed ...DO NOT use KR Wilson or Quick-way or National's procedures on someone else's tools and expect them to work ...Merry Christmas all ...Gene French gfrench1953@hotmail.com


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Monday, December 05, 2016 - 10:35 am:

Can some one explain the advantage or disadvantage of a heat stick over a heat gun for checking?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, December 05, 2016 - 11:43 am:

I just noticed in a recent Harbor Freight Tools sale flyer (flier?),....whatever,.....that their "heat gun" infrared thermometer, whatever ya' call it, is on sale for $17.95. I have one that I bought a year or so ago and I have to say, it works very well and comes in more "handy" than I originally thought it would. FWIW,..... harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Monday, December 05, 2016 - 01:04 pm:

Agree Harold---- I paid a few dollars more for one that works from -58 to 2102 degrees all most instantly every thing its been compared to is within one percent and used on T heating issues as well as finding a draft at home and checking modern car thermostats without taking any thing apart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gene french on Monday, December 05, 2016 - 01:22 pm:

Paul:
the only "advantage" is that you can reach under or around many areas that are not "line of sight "for the infra-red beam ...a uniform heat is important and i check at multiple points to assure that the temp. is atleast at the 400 deg. F. point i use ...naturally , the tempil stick will melt at any point higher than the set point of that particular stick ...so you check often to assure that you do not exceed the temp. or use 2 sticks at a high and low temp. range ...the heat gun is more convenient for checking the variation ...either is effective if enough points are checked ...always an optimist ...Gene French


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Monday, December 05, 2016 - 01:56 pm:

Does the heat stick if run into a cap or saddle have chemicals that would impair good bonding?

Question? Mike says you can hear a good bond on the cap by its sound when dropped on a solid surface---Is that a good practice to understand that sound?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gene french on Monday, December 05, 2016 - 08:48 pm:

Paul:
i am not sure how you would get material from the tempil stick into the mold cavity when pre-heating...BUT ...i expect that this material would effect the bond ...
regarding the "RING" of a properly bonded bearing in the steel cap ...the cap will have a definate ring tone when dropped against a hard surface ...i would not make any judgements regarding the particular tone , since it seems to vary , BUT if the cap had a dull sound i would suspect either the bearing material grade or the bond ... a person should know the material grade ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Tuesday, December 06, 2016 - 09:09 am:

Thanks gene, This us the first thread I am able to ask questions with answers from folks I trust, I am not trying to take over but I do understand how Andre must feel with the language barrier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Tuesday, December 06, 2016 - 11:16 am:

Another question for pouring saddles? lets say I had enough molds to pour three at the same time--- prepped the block installed the molds and heated the block to above 400 degrees in my shop oven---then let the block cool to the desired temperature when removed from the oven and poured the saddles at the same time---OK?---or better to do one at a time. The oven is natural gas.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gene french on Tuesday, December 06, 2016 - 11:57 am:

Paul:
an oven pre-heat to the temp. of 400 deg. F. will work well ...i did this when i had a full time shop ...i am semi-retired now and have down scaled slightly ( i had a LARGE heat treat oven ) ...also an oven helps to heat the shop ...it is currently 18 deg. F. ... the oven pre-heat with the molds in place and the oil holes blocked will dry any moisture from the anti-heat compound that i use to block off the oil holes ...(anti-heat #31042 is a product sold by Eastwood Supply ...1-800-345-1178 )...placing all 3 molds at once will increase your efficiency ...using 1 mold is more economical...always an optimist ...Merry Christmas ...Gene French


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Tuesday, December 06, 2016 - 12:48 pm:

Thanks gene, its 39 here going to a 43 high. Fortunately my shop has a forced air furnace. Yesterday my daughter got into the attic above my garage stuffing contents in and collapsed the sheet rock on top of my touring---I am not a happy camper!--- my Babbitt effort is put off again. Send me a PM with cost of two molds I like your quality.


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