Tire Flap Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Tire Flap Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gerald Blair on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 07:49 pm:

Hi Folks
I bought a new tire and tube today but they did not have a flap for my 1926. One guy in there said they just cut a inner tube in half and use that as a flap. Has anyone else ever heard of that? I have not taken the tire off the rim yet but it might have a flap in it.
Thanks
Gerald


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 07:54 pm:

Ford never sold a Model T with a tire flap. They are completely unnecessary. Don't waste your money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 08:16 pm:

I can't dispute Royce's comment that Ford never sold a T with a tire flap, but for my own piece of mind they are an absolute necessity. The wheels on my "improved car" have a split in the rim which will flex in operation. Maybe not enough to bother the tube, but then again... A flap is a very small price to pay for the peace of mind that it brings. I got mine from Lang's and they are of excellent quality.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 08:36 pm:

Wood or wire? The wires used a rim liner to cover the spots were the spokes were welded to rim. Big difference between a rim liner and flap. 21 inch wood wheel (or 30 inch clinchers) I think the flaps are a good idea esp to cover the joint on the 21 inch rims.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gerald Blair on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 09:15 pm:

Split rim Wood.
I also seen videos of people putting baby powder in the tire and on the tube before assembling them. Is that necessary?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 09:24 pm:

Yes-no-it helps! :-)acts as a dry lubrication. Some baby powder is corn starch if you use anything get the talc or get talc made for tire/tube work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Weisgerber- Vancouver WA. on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 10:08 pm:

For what it's worth...I think flaps are a good idea too for the above mentioned reasons. When putting new tires on my 25 I had to replace three of the old flaps due to deterioration, I also purchased them from Lange's great quality.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 10:45 pm:

I think flaps are a very good idea with a split rim. Ford may not have used them to save money but lots of other manufacturers using split rims did and I am sure there was a reason.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 11:29 pm:

Back in the 70's you used to be able to get rim liners than were supposed to keep the tube from chaffing against the rim...but I like these new flaps things...they make mounting your tire to the rim a real mommybear of an experience but I think they are well worth the hassle...they give you an extra thickness of rubber from the mid to upper sidewall and across the crown of the tire...I love them! Now if they could only make them puncture resistant, they'd have crackerjack product. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Friday, December 02, 2016 - 11:45 pm:

About talc, a good dusting of the tire casing and tube is a good idea, the lubrication it provides keeps the tube from chafing inside the tire, or sticking to it, which happens sometimes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 12:10 am:

Hey Royce, H.F. never used rust pitted rims either. I use flaps and powder with great success. Liners also help avoiding tube damage when install the tire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 08:10 am:

Flaps are a must with split rims unless you just want practice repairing flats. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Perry Goble on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 10:06 am:

Will nobody has said it yet so I will . Years ago you could not get flaps for mini wheels . We would rap the inside of the rim with duck tape.Just saying .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 10:20 am:

There is absolutely no connection between rim liners and flaps! Two different things! If they would make clincher tires the way they used to, we wouldn't need flaps, but that all changed when they started making Firestone tires in New Zealand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 10:25 am:

I buy the longest flaps Coker sells.

A good friend and fellow car guy in western NewYork buys only one size flap and he cuts the splice when he installs them. The splice is always opposite the valve stem hole and overlapping the flap opposite the metal valve stem counterbalances the weight of the stem.

I clean the rubber in that area and add a piece of tape so things stay put until I air it up


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 10:30 am:

Talcum powder is used as a lubricant to help get the tire on the rim. It serves no other purpose. I use Go Jo instead, it is less messy. Your tire and your hands end up clean afterwards.

Keith the only flats I have ever had were caused by a nail or something else external to the tire. Or from a rubber valve stem rotting loose. I wear tires out until they are bald.

Never seen any valid reason to use a tire flap. Just a complete waste of money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 11:17 am:

The one flat I've gotten with a T involved the tube getting bitten by the split in a split rim. Someone years back got the brilliant idea of using duct tape for rim liner which "powdered" or disintegrated just like it does when exposed to weather. A later complete tire replacement, with flaps, showed they'd done all 4 the same way. So just my opinion but I use them. Especially with a split or badly pitted rim. Oh hell, I use 'em period.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 11:37 am:

Ford DID install rim flaps in every 21" "balloon" style tire that left the FORD FACTORY. These are the 4.40/4.50 x 21" tires on the demountable rim with the split in it that was used on Wood Wheels. This is the common tire & rim used on 1926-1927 and available as early as 1924.

For those that would still ARGUE this point, here is a cut from the 1926-1927 MODEL T FORD OWNERS MANUAL:



21" split rims did have rim flaps installed in them when they were new from FORD and the FORD MANUAL proves it without a doubt.

ALSO note that the FORD MANUAL says to use "soapstone" or "talc" in the casing... NOT cornstarch, flour, liquid soap, oil, or grease! Anything petroleum based (like gojo) can have negative effects on the rubber of the tube or tire (like rotting the tube or rotting off valve stems).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 12:05 pm:

Tire talc is lubricant for the tube and casing (inside of the tire), not the wheel rim and bead of the tire.

Bead lubricant, tire lubricant, tire mounting lubricant, etc. is for ease of mounting the bead over and onto the rim.

Regarding GoJo - it can harm paint so you may want to test a spot first. I learned this the hard way when I was a kid.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sam Mendenhall on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 12:41 pm:

Years ago, when everything, including bikes cars, motorcycles that used tubes they put powder or talc in the tire casings to keep the tube from sticking to the tire after a long periods of time and getting hot. I am older, maybe than most and can remember changing tires and finding powder in the tires. I also found some with the tubes stuck to the tire and had a hard time pulling tube. My father told me when I was very young that was a practice they used, and explained it to me. I in fact still have a tire kit that has a little container with powder in it marked for that use. Also try putting on clinchers without a flap. Best investment you can make. My two cents worth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 12:52 pm:

Sam, that's been my experience. I also recall new tubes coming out of the box were often dusted with soapstone. (Talc)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 01:11 pm:

I've been using Go Jo to mount Model T tires since I was a teen ager 50 years ago. It does nothing to paint.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 02:24 pm:

YES, Talc is used to prevent the tube sticking to the tire, in fact, I was taught to "dump" a bit of talc into the empty tire casing, roll the tire to spread the talc around the tire, then bounce the tire to get the talc all over the inside of the tire casing--THEN proceed with installing the tube, and flap (put tube in, lightly inflate (just enough to fill the tube out), then install flap--after putting talc on flap, as they are sometimes really sticky)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 06:47 pm:

Adam, thanks for the printed info on fitting flaps in split rims. That is the correct application for rim flaps. Charlie B's experience shows this. They should also be used on any wheel which uses a lockring to hold the tyre on the rim, as is the case on TT rear wheels. Both these type of rims will allow water into the tyre/rim assembly and the resulting rust will cause problems if the tube is not protected by a flap inside the tyre.

As Royce indicated, clincher rims do not need an in-tyre flap. However, a rim liner will help negate any deleterious effects of rust in the rim. Flaps will do the same, and protect the tube from clumsy fitters, but I'd rather spend the not inconsiderable cost of flaps elsewhere.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gerald Blair on Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 06:48 pm:

OK that went well.
I used a little talk inside the tire and on the tube. I did not have a flap so I took the suggestion from Gaslight and cut the old inner tube, cut out the valve and cut about 4 inch out of the back (outside) of the tube and slide it in. I had a rim spreader and that made it easy. Went right on with no issues. Now if Santa only brings me 4 more tires I will be a happy man.
Thanks for the help.
Now the starter went out. Looks like the stud is broke loose on the inside. Have it off and now I will try and find part to fix that.


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