Removing the block

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Removing the block
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 11:54 am:

I am planning on removing the block from a fairly bare chassis. Can I leave the engine pan in the chassis, the steering column and radiator are already out, then remove the hogshead and the lift the block off the pan.
My main concern is the UJ and fourth bearing. I assume the UJ can lift up with the block and transmission and then pull he block forward to free the transmission from the UJ.
Anyone ever done this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood -Long Beach, California on Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 12:03 pm:

Never done it, but I have seen a lot of chassis with the pan and driveline/axles still in place and no engine, so it certainly must be possible.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 12:29 pm:

Tony,

That should work. Also, you could just remove the whole engine, pan and all, then put the bare pan back in place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 12:53 pm:

Why? What advantage do you see to this ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 01:06 pm:

Why? The pan and hogs head are supporting the transmission. You would still have to pull the engine far enough to the front to get the U-joint out of the tail shaft or remove the rear end. Even if you could lift the engine up high enough, depending on the year the running board cross brace would be in the way of the torque tube.
The farm wagons you have seen with the pan installed were done that way after the engine was removed to have a place to mount the front wish bone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 01:07 pm:

I have done it on a one piece pan set up. I was able to tilt the block over on it's side with the pan in place to take up rod bearings. I did not actually remove the block as I was able to work with the block on its side but I could easily have removed it if necessary.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 01:10 pm:

Rich,

Not meaning to speak for Tony, but I do it to make the chassis easier to roll around. With the wishbone and torque tubes coupled up, everything is much more manageable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 01:17 pm:

Something at the 4th main will need to be moved out of the way- as in the drive line, as it will be impossible to slide the block forward enough to get the trans tail shaft out of the 4th main, and you will damage something if you lift the front of the motor and not unbolt the back end.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Thursday, December 22, 2016 - 11:09 pm:

Dan, I plan to remove the four bolts holding the fourth bearing. I was looking not to have to fight the eight bolts holding the pan and front axle to the chassis. The horizontal bolt by starter is a pain, as we all know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker, Oklahoma City on Friday, December 23, 2016 - 10:00 am:

Yes, it can be done. I've done it myself and managed to pull the engine without a lift, just two strong, burely guys.

The key was to remove as much stuff off of the engine as possible, including the head, pistons, valves, etc,. It's been several years since I did it, so I don't recall exactly what else it took. I don't remember if I had to remove the fourth main, but I probably did. I also don't remember if I pulled the steering column, but it wouldn't hurt.

Then it was just a matter of lifting, pulling it forward, and shimmying it until we could grab it and pull it out.

On a later date, I was also able to pull the transmission without pulling the engine. :-) Mine currently has oil slingers. You might still be able to do it with magnets in place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, December 23, 2016 - 11:24 am:

I haven't pulled an engine without the crankcase, so have nothing to say, except that when you get ready to put it back in, you need to have the rear of the engine pointed upward and be sure the 4th main is perfectly aligned with the crankcase and I'm not sure that would be possible unless the crankcase is out of the chassis.

As for the horizontal bolt next to the starter, I have found that a helper is useful, however I do it by myself in this way. I use a box wrench and put some masking tape around it so that the nut fits very snugly. Then I slide that nut in from the back side. I can usually do this by laying under the car. I hold the wrench with one hand and put the bolt through with the other hand turning it into the nut. You will need to slide the wrench around a bit to find the nut with the bolt, but it is really quite easy. When I get ready to install the cotter I turn everything so that the slot is vertical. Then with a long nose pliars I drop the pin into place and rotate the bolt enough so that I can reach the other end of the cotter pin and bend it with a long screwdriver. Since that bolt should be snug but not tight it works very well. Only bend enough so that the pin will not fall out but will still be easy to remove in the future
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, December 23, 2016 - 11:39 am:

I cheat on the that nut, I use a self lock nut. The tape on open end wrench is how I hold it too. Sorry but your trying to save a bit of time sounds like a lot more work in the long run esp when you go to put the engine back in and have to shoe-horn the mag plate in and hold up the drive shaft to install the u-joint in the tail shaft hole at the same time and hope you don't spring the flange on the crankshaft in the process or bend the mag coil plate. The mag coil plate is very easy to bend. Let us know how it goes.
MarkG


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Friday, December 23, 2016 - 11:51 am:

I had not got round to thinking about putting it back in... On reflection I don't think putting back in will be possible as holding the UJ in position will be difficult and the chances of getting the paper gasket lined up correctly between the fourth bearing and the pan will be quite difficult.
As for installing the bolt by the starter, Norms method is what I use to do but I longer possible with my 50% functioning left hand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harry Courtneay on Friday, December 23, 2016 - 01:35 pm:

The first model T engine I ever rebuilt in 1964 I did it that way with no problem. I was just a kid and nobody told me that I couldn't do it that way. I have since done it that way a couple of times and found no obstacles


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harry Courtneay on Friday, December 23, 2016 - 01:39 pm:

I just happened to remember the engines I was working on had no magnets on the flywheel. This might make a difference


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, December 23, 2016 - 05:07 pm:

So many years ago didn't know how, so bolted the crankcase into the frame, and then put the block over it on boards, bolted on the flywheel, and dropped the motor unit into the pan.



Proper way, nope, but without a hoist or chain fall, sometimes you resort to half-baked measures :-) Think I tilted the unit up to engage the U-joint, but too many years have passed to know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, December 23, 2016 - 07:47 pm:

It's really hard on the body but I have assembled the engine and without the crank installed, lifted it up on it's nose, turned it the right way and dropped/slid into the frame. I did it once and that was the last time I will try that. Ouch! Took it out the same way and I recall dropped it about the last foot of sitting it down. Nothing hurt but my pride, my back was a bit sore the next day or two.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, December 23, 2016 - 09:53 pm:

Get Kyle to help you! I think he would be glad to help you. It will be a great learning and bonding experience for him.
Norm


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