AC brake linkage questions, again. Wayne Sheldon, please join

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: AC brake linkage questions, again. Wayne Sheldon, please join
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Kile ....San Jose CA on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 01:00 pm:

I recently acquired an original set of small-drum AC brakes for my '24 Tudor. I have read all the posts I can find on the forum and still need more info. I see Wayne Sheldon posted some info on a nice linkage setup he has using rods without an equalizer. I thought of using another original parking brake cross shaft mounted to the frame behind the existing one, and it seems like that may be what Wayne has done. Then running brake rods back to the AC assemblies using Model A clevis and pins. Then add a single pull rod down to the second cross shaft from the brake pedal. Any thoughts on this idea ?? Would the up/down motion of the differential factor in here ?? Also, does anyone have Richard Baughman's contact info ?? I understand that he produces a linkage that uses pull rod. thanks, for the thoughts and ideas, Bruce Kile


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 01:23 pm:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/530285.html?1428209600

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/556611.html?1437781518


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 06:10 pm:

Bruce, Any particular questions that you have? I am quite opinionated on many things and can get very long-winded on lots of subjects, including brakes for model Ts.
Both my '24 coupe and the '19 boat-tail roadster/speedster have similar braking systems.
A lot of people install model T auxiliary brakes in such a way that the transmission brake becomes a backup, while the added outside brakes act as the primary brake for both the pedal and the handle. I have never liked this setup for several reasons. One of the reasons is that too many parts work for both the service and the emergency/parking brake. If the wrong piece breaks or becomes damaged? Both systems could become inoperable. Another problem (and I have seen this happen to people with brakes set up this way), is that the adjustment to leave the transmission brake as a backup is critical! It MUST be at that perfect spot where pressing the pedal activates the rear brakes for normal service, then by pressing the pedal a bit harder, the transmission brake should activate. The reality is that things wear, twist, stretch, bend, etc etc etc. You drive merrily along your way, believing that your wonderful added braking system is working fine, until something goes wrong. Depending on circumstances, one thing or another doesn't do what you expect, and potentially serious trouble follows. Either the transmission brake prevents the rear system from working when you need it, or it doesn't do the job you need for it to do.
(THAT is the SHORT version!)

I much prefer to have two almost totally independent braking systems. One works from the brake handle. One works off the brake pedal. Either, both can operate on the rear wheel drums, or one system on the rear drums and one in the transmission. Regardless, they should operate independently, and except for the wheels and drums (and maybe the frame that everything is bolted onto?), no parts in common. Face it. If a wheel falls off? You are going to stop whether you want to or not. So the loss of both brakes won't make a lot of difference at that point.

The coupe,


The boat-tail,


When I bought my coupe, I was looking for a car suited for drive in a wide variety of conditions (I live in the foothills of the Sierra mountains). I wanted to have the brakes set up my way. The coupe had been done almost exactly how my boat-tail was done by me. I knew it was the right car.
Although there are differences in the details, both cars operate the inside lined brake shoes from the brake handle. Both cars operate the outside linings on the rear drums with the brake pedal. Both cars have solid second cross shafts operating the service brake, with the Ford factory cross shaft working the hand brake and clutch. I made up the cross shaft for the boat-tail from Ford model T parts. A past owner did a nice job building the cross shaft for the coupe.

Anymore details I can help with?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Kile ....San Jose CA on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 09:54 pm:

Thanks Wayne, that's exactly what I was looking for. It looks like the second cross shaft on the boat-tail is very similar to the stock Ford cross shaft, right ?? Seems a stock cross shaft could be modified to work as the second shaft and would look era-appropriate.

Thanks Mark for the links. I hadn't seen one of those threads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 10:33 pm:

Yes, Bruce K, made from stock cross shaft parts. Good original cross shafts are fairly easy to come by. And they are common enough that there should be no real problem from taking a good one and modifying it (as long as you do not chop up an early one with the cast iron clutch cam). In that case, I had enough left-over pieces both from my previous speedster builds, as well as from other people's projects (including from an eBad purchase), that I was able to assemble the cross shaft from pieces on hand without taking a good one apart.
Good luck with your project!
Drive carefully, and enjoy the New Year! W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 04:26 pm:

I have had original AC parts over the years. Originally, AC brakes were cable operated with an equalizer, just like original Rocky Mountains were. I don't know why all the repro guys choose to do things incorrectly!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Dysart - SoCal on Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 06:51 pm:

I just converted my '14 Touring from a full Rocky Mountain setup, including the RM equalizer and linkages by swapping the brakes to the repro AC units. Why? Because I recently installed a set of Buffalo wheels/hubs and the small drums had interference when the RM drums were installed. Without the RM drums, everything runs free. Plus I wanted better backwards braking on steep hills. And I think that they look better behind wire wheels, etc. etc.

So the AC units went on easy, but the RM linkages use 3/8 rods (threaded at the ends). Every clevis that I found listed that fits a 3/8 rod uses a 3/8 clevis pin (including the RM supplied clevises) and the AC actuating arm is drilled for 5/16 clevis pins (regular Ford brake hardware). Rather than just drill out the A/C arm to 3/8, I decided to try something more reversible (in case it didn't work out). I found "Dry-Running Sleeve Bearing Flanged, for 5/16" Shaft Diameter, 1/4" Length" at McMaster-Carr (part # 6627K409) which fit perfectly in the 3/8 clevis holes, allowing for a 5/16 clevis pin. I received the clevis parts yesterday and installed them late last night. Everything fit like a glove. If I can get home from work before dark, I'll pull the car out to do the final brake adjustments and take pics.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Kile ....San Jose CA on Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 07:14 pm:

I would like to see pictures of your installation.


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration