Oil leak from 4th main area

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Oil leak from 4th main area
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 02:39 pm:

I am hoping to determine the reason why I have such an oil leak from the 4th main.
The back story is; The T went for a little run and lost one bendix screw and the rest were really loose. So I was able to put it back together and add some oil. Here is where I think things when wrong. I think I had over filled the oil. I checked it after each quart with the upper valve on the pan.
Next weekend the T went on a family stroll. 5 tís in all on the stroll. Great fun. That is when the oil leak start to show itself from the 4th main. Lacking of grease in the 4th main does not seem to be an issue because of how much is showing from the drive shaft pivot ball.
Before I tear into the issue I need to have the part and pieces ready to put back in place.
Looking in the catalog, I came across part 3369BBD. This is a ball bearing universal ball cap, no machining to the tail shaft required.
It should stop the oil leak.
This car is not a 100 point show car, itís a let the kids climb and have fun car.
What is the prevailing opinion of the ball bearing universal ball cap?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 03:07 pm:

It's possible the plug in the end of the 4th. main is either missing, or leaking. I'd try keeping the oil level between the top and bottom pet-cock, and make sure the universal ball is literally packed full of grease and I bet a good share of your oil leak will cease. I was told the ball bearing 4th. mains can be a good source for a broken crank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 03:34 pm:

Is the ball bearing sealed,or is it a shield? After i broke my first crankshaft i found the bearing only had a shield on the back side and the bearing was exposed to all dirt and carbon that can hide in a T engine!! I did not build that engine but when it was rebuilt on my watch it got a org fourth main bearing!Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 03:47 pm:

I will pack more grease in the ball joint and keep an eye on the oil level.
I was able to install a dip stick.
This should help with the oil level.
Now for a long run. The weather seems right today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 03:55 pm:

If you are using straight grade oil such as sae 30 the oil is thick when cold. It will take some time to run down through the crankcase to the sump at the rear. When you add oil, wait a few minutes before checking the level. If it is low, add some more oil and wait a while before checking again.

Monday we poured sae 30 oil into a T engine which had no oil in it. The temperature outside was about 45 degrees. We poured in 4 quarts and checked the oil level. It didn't come out the top petcock. I was just about to add more oil when the young man under the car said, "It's beginning to drip." So if you added oil rapidly until it started to run out the top, you might have over filled it.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 04:29 pm:

I run 30 non-detergent. When I put added the dipstick, the oil was drained. Got about 1/2 gallon. Refilled with 4 quarts. With luck I will take her for a long ride and see where the oil ends up. And I agree that the issue could be that I didn't wait long enough between adding quarts. The oil seemed to pour out of the bottle fairly quick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 05:22 pm:

Steve--Two things come to mind. 1--You may want to run a wire through the spigots on the pan that check for oil. Sometimes stuff clogs the hole and oil doesn't flow freely. 2-- If you replace the forth main with the new bearing type, most people will advise you to put your pan on the pan anvil to ensure it is straight. Many crank shafts have been broken by not doing this. I have used the new type bearing on two of my T's without a problem. Just my .02.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 07:34 pm:

R. S. Sorry for being thick. I am not sure what spigots on the pan are. Is it the grease cups? It seams that every time I do something I break something. The learning seems to never stop.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By stuart clipson on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 07:49 pm:

i believe he is referring to the petcocks for checking oil level


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 08:23 pm:

I would stay far away from the ball bearing 4th main. The original Babbitt ball cap is best. You may have a worn and tapered output shaft which will cause excessive oil to leak


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 08:51 pm:

If you have in too much oil, you don't need to drain the whole crankcase. Just open the top petcock and put a pan under it. It will take quite a while, but the oil will finally reach the proper level and stop dripping.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 12:07 pm:

Pump the ball joint full of grease, check the oil and when you park, put a drip pan under it and maybe add a ball cap shim. :-)(I carry one with me) If you only drive a little bit it should be good enough for years of driving. It's a lot of work to just replace the 4th main whether it's babbitt or ball bearing type. The engine or the rear end has to come out or the engine needs to be slid far enough forward to disengage the ujoint.
Just because it says no machining does not mean you can use the ball bearing type you are asking about on "your" tail shaft. Your tail shaft may be too worn to have the proper fit in the bearing hole.
Besides worn babbitt or tail shaft another thing that could be causing excess oil leakage is missing or loose plug in tail shaft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 12:20 pm:

I believe Mark is onto something regarding the ball cap shim - in Steve's (the other Steve) initial posting, he makes mention of "Lacking of grease in the 4th main does not seem to be an issue because of how much is showing from the drive shaft pivot ball".

Clearly, if excessive grease is present around the ball cap, it could be from several things as have already been mentioned. I believe I'd be looking at the plug being loose in the driven plate or excessive ball cap wear in the Babbitt and or wear on the torque tube ball itself.

To visually verify looseness or wear on the torque tube ball, simply rapidly move the hand brake lever from the forward position to vertical several times in succession while watching the ball joint closely - if you can see it move, you need a steel shim that's available from the vendors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 01:27 pm:

I added the "ball cap shim" in an edit just before posting. I carry a drip pan or piece of card board to put under ball joint area when parked in parking lots. I have seen a number of cars that leave a mess, not a small drip but were you can see the outline of almost the whole pan where they have parked.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 01:43 pm:

The ball cap shim idea got me to thinking. I, myself, have been guilty, as well as others on whose cars I have worked, of installing a gasket on the rear side of the ball joint between the 4th main and the cap. The only gasket should be between the 4th main and the crankcase/hogs head. If you put one behind the 4th main it will push the cap too far away from the ball joint and cause a possible leak. Just put some gasket sealer such as ultra black in that area.
Norm


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