Car for sale on HCCA web site. Check it out.
Some assembly required.
A bargain compared to this one that we have discussed from time to time.
to me if the top dont lay down they are just plain old coupes!!! charley
I liked looking through the pics in those HCCA ads. A lot of those prices seemed a bit optimistic to me.
I wonder how many cats have had their kittens on the seat of that 1918 "survivor".
If you notice, the rear of the top is covered up for some reason. I'll bet it's a 1918 model, not a '17.
??? I thought all the coupelet tops folded down from the windshield header back, stowing the "B" pillar . . . these bodies look like a fixed top - as Charley says, it's just a coupe !!
There were two different 1917 couplets - both styles are rare.
First style has the folding top like the 1915 and 1916.
The second style has stationary top - it is padded right down to the belt line. The window pillar is removable.
The 1918 couplets have a flat top like 1919 coupes, but still has the removable window pillar.
I wonder what become of the frame and running gears?
To save the body is admirable. I wonder what happen to the chassis and running gear. A speedster?
George, I think its all there. Look at the second photo.
The seller does have a lot of information - but I am still out on the frame. It does appear that there is a new category for a doctor's coupe - there is now a doctor's couplet. From information "a woman medical doctor in Virginia City Montana" owned the car. FMC of the time was improving its sales relation to the new market.
Speaking of Montana got me thinking of this one. I believe it was advertised for sale in 2008. My fuzzy memory recalls it being in Montana. It looks much the same to me.
One of the neatest things (to me) about "old cars" is the spin-off interesting details and histories that you can come across. When I saw the line about that coupelet body having belonged to a "Female Doctor in Virginia City Mt." I first thought - "bullshit". Then I did what any committed 21st century researcher would do - I did a Google search, and discovered Dr. Mary Babcock Atwater, 1855-1941 who left her husband in Ohio, arrived in Salt Lake City in 1890, and being in financial straits, accepted an opportunity to provide medical care for miners in Bannack, Montana (not Virginia City, but close).
She re-married a man named Atwater, and moved to Helena. Can't learn much more about her than that, unless you by a book about her by her grand-daughter, Mari Grana.
So, it's possible she owned a 1918 coupelet at some point, in Montana, and it would be very interesting if the history was corroborated for that body - although I don't see that adding dollar value - just interest, and a great side-trip into the history of the time.
RB interesting observation - How can the knowledge that a female doctor owned a coupelet make it increase in dollar value. May be it's value would increase because of it's history or knowledge of who had ownership.
On the History Channel reality show of Oak Island the discussion of which would the boys want to find the Shakespeare Port Folio or gold.
Well, the First Folio of Shakespeare's plays, printed in 1623, was auctioned at Sotheby's in London. This earliest collected edition of Shakespeare's works has been given a guide price of between $3m and $4.3m.
A 100 pounds of gold would be worth $1.7m if you round it. It all depends on the economy.
So the paper documents of Shakespeare have more monetary value than the gold.
BUT, the way I would look at it would be 200 year old gold is worth a lot more than 200 year old paper stored underwater for 2 centuries!
I would rather find the gold and keep my mouth shut, spend a little at a time and it might last a lifetime plus! The Shakespeare papers; after all the taxes are payed you are down to 1.5 to 2 million and everyone knows your name.
The fellow in Montana is a really nice guy. I've done business with him a couple times. I think he is looking for the right home for the cars on eBay more than he is trying to make a buck. If you are truly interested in one of his project cars, try sending him a message or make an offer.
Rich E. -- That body does appear to be the one in the ad. The one you posted is an '18. As Larry mentioned, the top is covered on the one in the ad, so you can't see the one feature which distinguishes a '17 from an '18 -- the shape of the top.
Mike, I am pretty sure that is the same car. This shows the door latch of both cars. The coloring of the wood, primer and black latch seems to match.
Unrest or ed chassis comes with it with all the tins
The owner of this body needs to get the tarp off of the top, so we can see what it really is. I own one of the three known mid year '17 coupelets, and they are quite different than the '18 models, although similar.
It is a project with great possibility at a fair price - even fairer with the details supplied here. A good relationship between Royce and the seller is a big plus, I'd think, I hope a forum member will step up and adopt this one. It's a unique body style that deserves to be resurrected.
Ray Wells rewood three of these bodies several
years back. They were all 1918 Coupelet's. One went to Montana, I have one and I can not remember where
the third one went.
Anybody have any Ideas on what this car would be worth fully restored?
David Simmering has a real '17 for sale. Ready to go, and it has a Ruckstell too, but I don't know if it is included. The last I heard, he was asking $40,000. I saw the car on the Finger Lakes Tour, and David too!
Yes, our '17 is for sale; I can use the room. It does have a Ruckstell, but the correct restored 1917 rear end, drive shaft and radius rods are included. My best price is $35,000. Karen and I have driven it on a lot of tours.
Dr Atwater is a well known figure in Montana history. There are thousands of pages of information about her including the well written book by her granddaughter. She was known as Dr Mollie, lived much of her life in Helena on Hayes avenue and at least according to legend, treated one and all with no regard to race, creed or ability to pay. She delivered babies in mining camps, mansions and moccasin flats -- as the Indian settlements north of Helena where I now live were known. She lived to 1941, saw the transition from the still rough frontier to a world of airplanes and automobiles.
Much of her reputation here today revolves around her work on women's suffrage and women's rights. She risked jail and the loss of her medical license because she defied the Comstock laws that forbid the dispensing of information about contraception and other women's health issues.
I don't know much about the coupelet body.
You folks are letting me down. So far, there has not been one single comment about the "Doctor's Couplelette".
The 18 for sale came from Fred Houston about 10 years ago. I don't know where he got it but it was for sale for years and nobody stepped up with the cash until Bob Woodburn in Bozeman bought it. He paid what Fred was asking; brought it home and has stored it inside, dry and cared for since. In my opinion, part of the value of the car is the original upholstery. As far as I know -- and I believe as far as Bob has been able to find -- there are NO other 18's with original upholstery to be used for reproduction patterns to have new upholstery made.
I would guess it can be bought for somewhere south of the $25 he has it on ebay for. I would also guess that unless somebody has found something nobody knows about there are no other originals with virtually perfect, usable, original wood, all the correct hardware except what some guy stole from Fred, etc. Chassis?? It is the same as any other 18, that is a minor part of the deal.
Bob has hundreds of cars, several of the best original Model T's anywhere, etc. Several years ago he sold a PART of his toy collection to buy a $100,000 1912 Kissel that belonged to Judge Clarke of Virginia City, who was pretty much the judge for all of southwest Montana at the time.
If there is an easier way to connect with other people with similar cars around the world than to list it on ebay at a high price so it doesn't actually sell, I can't think of one. The HCCA site is pretty worthless and they charge for it, all the other sites I know of charge either a listing fee or a percentage, I think Bob has a pretty good system figured out.
Royce is right, he is a great guy to deal with and yes, the earlier coupelet came from him. I think he got it from George Baker, a piano repairman who did a lot of work rewooding cars but I am not sure of that. It may have been done by Ray Wells and George just bought it and sold it to Bob when he was getting his affairs in order.
Not that this has much to do with all of this but Bob basically invented the computer controlled tool changer for CNC mills when all that came along. He was quite well off from that when he was in his 20's and indulged his passion of saving historic cars, especially those with Montana connections as the royalty checks continued to grow. He has 40+ years of dealing in cars and related collectibles.
I didn't see Mike's comment about Ray Wells rewooding 3 bodies. I believe this is the Ray Wells car -- in the pictures -- that came to Montana and that George Baker did a different body for Bob.
Mike should post some pics of his Coupelet.
The 1918 couplet that was here in Minneapolis that was owned by Dwight Madsen then Bill Praus and then sold to Steve Coniff in Colorado Springs about twenty years ago was a complete car and had it's original upholstery which was in very good condition. It wasn't like the basket cases discussed here.
I saw the car many times when it was in Minneapolis - Dwight and Bill were friends of my father and each lived nearby.
Photos of the body including original upholstery appeared in Vintage Ford, From Here to Obscurity and pages 248-251 in Bruce McCalley's black book.
Well, in all honesty, I have virtually no interest in the car. I was just trying to add some perspective and a slight amount of information.
It is probably fair to say that I am not as interested in Model T's in general as I used to be.
Stan, I thought Bob told me that Ray Wells did the wood on that body when I looked at it. George Baker was as gifted as anybody when it came to working with wood along with numerous other things so it's possible he did it. Ask Bob next time you talk with him.
The chassis under that couplet was of later vintage which caused me to drag my feet. In hind site I always regretted not buying it, but I didn't need another project then, and still don't, but think about it.
I went to the trouble of researching Couplets years
back and found 14 in my research and have added a couple more since. I gathered pieces of upholstery
and trim where I could along the way with the thought of having it made. I did not know what I was getting into. After 6 years yes I did have the upholstery material made along with the edging material.
The car body was upholstered last winter and I'm waiting to put the rest of the car together.
Coupelets are unto them selves, totality different
in area's that you would think would be the same as other models. Bob Woodburn was a big help in
supplying samples as well as many other people and
I would take this time to thank them all. I have
one question still unanswered, where did the bolt
of material go?
With regard to Dave & Karen Simmering's 1917 Coupelet, I think $35K is a fair price. It is a very rare surviving example of a car that was produced in low numbers to begin with. Larry says there are three of them left; seems I read on here a couple of years ago that there are four. Regardless of whether there are three or four, they are very rare cars today.
Dave and Karen had their Coupelet at a national tour in Branson, MO a couple of years ago. This is no trailer queen, they drove it every day on the tour and it ran very well. The car is complete and correct. If you want one of the rarest Model T's in existence, pull the trigger on this one. It's a nice car.
Interesting that the picture of the car in question has not been properly identified yet. There were three coupelets made in 1917, although the last one is an '18 model. Gator owns the '18 coupelet that Steve Coniff owned.
One thing that clearly identifies a '17 Coupelet from an '18, besides the shape of the top is the gas tank. A true '17 has the tank under the front seat, whereas the '18s are in the trunk.