So one of my wheels had a slow leak. Thanks to this forum I left the wheel on, purchased 24 inch tire irons from Harbor freight and went at it. The tire came off after I figured out how to use the curves on the tire irons. No flap inside. The tube was patched 3 times and had a new leak nearby the other 3 patches. The previous owner never figured out after 3 patches that maybe something is wrong like no flap and it abrades against the edgy clincher area.

Happy New Year Ignacio! The flap discussion has arisen here several times. I am in the camp that believes in flaps. I removed all four brand-new Firestones that came with my T after I found the first one (I was redoing the wheels) didn't have a flap. They now all have Lang's flaps that are of great quality.

I think the utility of flaps depends on the condition of the wheels. Some need them, and some don't. I think some of my wheels have them, but it's been more than three days since I looked, so I don't remember for sure.

Never have used tire flaps, other than to take them out and throw them away if I run into one. Never had a problem installing tires, and never had a flat caused by anything that a flap would have helped with. I regularly wear tires completely out and reuse the tubes. There are a couple of red rubber tubes in my '17 runabout that are 50 or more years old and have been used on several different tires. No flaps ever.

Ford never installed a flap on any Model T.

The current molds used for tires, regardless of the brand are not the same as they once were. Like Royce, I don't like flaps either. When I installed four New Zealand tires several years ago, I got a flat after 50 miles. I installed another tube, and didn't go very far before I got another flat. I put in another tube again, and not far down the road got another flat. At that point I gave up and loaded my car on the trouble trailer. Ever since I have used flaps, and haven't had a flat since. I'd rather be like Royce, but unfortunately am not. I hate flaps, and after they've been in for a few years are way more difficult to re-install, but I deal with it.

I have them on my TT, mainly because a friend that gets me a deal on tires (Runs a restoration shop) recommended I use them. I was new to clinchers and split rims at the time, and I got them. I do not have them on my wife's Touring. Never had a flat on either one except for a blowout on one of the old tires that came on the truck when I first got it.

I have pinched a hole in a tube mounting tires on a motorcycle and a Model A. I think flaps are probably better at preventing that than anything else.

I have all flap-less wheels and (knock wood) no problems. I do run a strip of Gorilla tape on the inside of the rim before having the tire/tube mounted (by the tire shop..not me!)

So if I took my wheels to Discount tire would they (should they) take the tires off? Then after I refinish them would they (should they) put them back on? Not trying to sound like Dr. Seuss here.

I believe in using flaps. I think it is a good practice.
It is not a requirement to run tires with flaps. Hence, to keep costs down Ford did not use them.

Willis

Flaps are required for split rims. This has been discussed before and Dan Treace posted proof via a Ford Service Bulletin on one or two forum threads last year.

However, I'm too lazy to find the threads.

Take your rims to a tire shop? I dunno. My buddy took his '25 TT front split rims to a local shop for new tires and they bent the sh#t out of them! He wasn't pleased.
You probably have WAY more experience already at working on model T tires than the poor schmucks at the tire store.

Flaps (or what ever the correct terminology is)? On my Crappy T Lizzhe, I used an old cut down inner tube and electrical tape to hold it together to provide protection from the spokes for my brand new tubes inside the old 16" tires that were on a Packard (same buddy as above) on the '31-'33 Plymouth wheels grafted to model T hubs on the front. Worked good almost 20 years ago and still holding. :-)

Dumb question. You DO know to buy the extremely FLAMMABLE tire patch glue instead of the NON and to put the glue down, light it afire and when it's about burnt out, blow it out and put the patch on immediately? Old man's tale but it works! I may be speaking out of turn on this.
I'm totally serious.

(Message edited by Duey_C on January 07, 2017)

(Message edited by Duey_C on January 07, 2017)

It's true that flaps provide significant additional protection against punctures, and if you have the room in your tires and the strength in your fingers to accomplish the installation, go for it. _I found, though, that it's near impossible to stuff flaps into 30x3 Non-Skid Firestones and had to give up and mount the tires without the flaps.

There's an art and knack to mounting tires without flaps while not pinching or otherwise puncturing the inner-tube. _In my case, a good deal of time was spent changing tires on my Schwinn when I was a kid and that experience seems to have stood me in good stead. _My car has run about six years without flaps in any of the wheels and so far, no punctures, even after wearing through two sets of tires.

It's important that your non-split rims are smooth, without any sharp edges (I have no experience with split rims). _Under ordinary circumstances, that's easy enough to ensure with a common set of files and a bit of sandpaper. _After painting the rim, I wrap two layers of duct tape around the inside of the rim. _Some folks frown on duct tape, nevertheless it's a time-honored way of doing things.

Bob, your duct tape acts as a rim liner, to keep the tube isolated from any rust flakes or rough patches in the rim. A better solution is a liner cut from a 13" modern inner tube, but tubes are scarce these days. I have found a 24" bicycle tube, slit around the inside, makes just as good a liner. These are a snap fit in the T rim and thus do not get dislodged when fitting your tyres.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

The tire companies are making a killing on those flaps. The last time I checked, they were $1 less than the tube itself!

@Larry no kidding. I wonder if there is a less expensive alternative that is not duct tape. Like maybe cut a cheaper tube?

Like maybe what @Allan said just now? :-)

Hey, check it out:

https://www.amazon.com/10-Bicycle-Tubes-1-95-2-125-Removable/dp/B01HQGCO8Q/ref=s r_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1483817503&sr=8-3&keywords=bicycle%2Btube%2B24%2Bx%2B2.125&th= 1&psc=1

Apples and oranges & prunes - sometimes. All good - - all do different things for different people.

Rim liners, flaps, duct tape, stage tape (thanks Rick (RIP) ALL are different things for different uses.

Like oil and water pumps - a variety of opinions

Good discussions:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/215641.html?1307320620

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/331462.html?1356922330

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/77875.html?1231450683

There is nothing wrong with flaps and no reason to remove them or not use them if you want. I just bought a new pair of work boots and they didn't come with socks but I wear socks so I don't get blisters. Flaps are just another layer of protection for your tube.

A tire spins and flexes side to side, one little rust flake is like a razor blade on the tube but with a flap it won't cut the tube because you have a "sock" between the tube and rim, half way up the tire...and the flap is many times thicker. Mounting new tires with a flap is way less likely to pinch a tube and have a leak also.

Tim, I have no objection to the use of unnecessary flaps. My main objection is the $150 plus freight one has to fork out for a set of 5 when I can make a set of rim liners for nothing. I have much better things to do with $150.

Allan from down under.

Allan,

Maybe it's my misunderstanding of certain words used "down under"...up here, that large piece of metal covering the engine is a hood. I believe "down there" it is a bonnet. In any event, there is a difference between "rim liner" and "tire flap" in my mind.
Different things for different uses...I prefer to use a spoon when I eat soup...some folks use chopsticks...to each his own.

Awhile back, Dan T. posted this:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/261702.html?1327203434

Dave, a straw works better. Good insurance against clumsiness with a spoon, just like flap insurance against clumsiness with a tyre spoon.

Allan from down under.

True !

Allan,

Not sure we are both talking about the same thing like Dave pointed out. A "flap" is not a "liner". If you follow his link you have been on this topic before and seem to agree that a flap will help protect a tube. Whatever works best for you is the way to go, yes I am clumsy with a spoon and have pinched tubes. I have also mounted a set of tires with flaps (or boots) over 30 years ago and have never had a problem with them.

Frankly I am currently "tired" or tire problems, yesterday had 4 new tires put on my Blazer as the Wranglers it was wearing would not keep it in one lane with weak sidewalls. A month ago I had 2 new Firestone's, tubes and beet juice mounted with 1 new rim on my Ford tractor...that was almost $1,400. Almost $2,000 in the last month for rubber that will wear away. I don't like to do the same thing frequently, do it once and forget about it.

I saw a clincher blow out while sitting on hot pavement in the summer once with nobody in or near the car, just blew right out. However you mount skinny tires with high pressure and drive on them you never know what will happen or when. An extra layer between the tube and rim is not a bad thing but millions of Model T's didn't have them.

Tim, I feel your pain. Our Case 9330 needs new rubber, 20.8 x 38s, 8 of them! It will just have to go another season. Recent summer rains have downgraded two wheat crops to feed grade, so the excellent harvest we were looking at has gone considerably South.

Allan from down under.

I'm pretty sure the liner saved my bacon! The Sheet metal screw never got to the tube, just followed liner down side wall. This was on a tour with speeds up to 35 MPH. I found it after the day's touring. . . WHEW!!

Use duct tape and you'll be in for a real surprise and an additional unwanted job the next time you pull that tire. Duct tape deteriorates in there just like it does when exposed to weather. Becomes a stringy stuck on mess. I was a victim of this when replacing 4 tires on my 27'. Went to flaps after an extended clean up.

All 4 tires are off! Three rims had (drum roll please)

duct tape!

The 1 rim with nothing tube had a slow leak and 3 previous patches near each other at the area of the clincher bolt mount. The other 3 with duct tape had no leaks. The duct tape left residue when I took it off.

The 24 inch bike tube scissor cut down the crease looks like it is going to work perfectly as a flap! It only costs $5, $4 at Walmart. I am going with $5 24 inch bike tube cut with scissors flaps.

Three wheels had red tubes in them. Is that of any interest or significance?

Ignacio,
While looks can be deceiving, I don't like the looks of your spokes. There appears to be cracks from dry-rot. Please find an experienced person to give a closer inspection. There are many posts on this forum regarding this critical subject.

I had duct tape in my '17 on four of the five 30 X 3 1/2 rims that was 40 years old when I peeled it off and replaced it 9 years ago. It was like new. I reused four out of five tubes. One tube had a leaking rubber stem so it got replaced.