1908 built T in Hawaii (and K), Peabody and Ford Canada tidbits

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: 1908 built T in Hawaii (and K), Peabody and Ford Canada tidbits
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Friday, January 06, 2017 - 01:10 pm:

Somewhat related to the 1908 Ford thread going on, a few shipping and early T pieces.

It looks like at least one 1908 produced T (309 and earlier) made it to Hawaii according to this 1908 advertisement. The includes top, generator and full complement of lights:


And not to be outdone, at least one Model K was already on the islands according to this February 1908 article:



Regarding shipping. I've suspected there may have been some "gray area" between Ford Canada, Lockwood, and overseas marketing. Take a look at this portion of the Canada Ford ledger involving Model K. K #207 looks as if it were shipped from N.Y.. This isn't designated on the other K. Also, Peabody is mentioned on a NZ bound K (#211). Maybe these pieces of puzzle will be of interest to some of you Australian and N.Z. researchers:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Friday, January 06, 2017 - 04:10 pm:



I had this on the forum last year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steven miller on Friday, January 06, 2017 - 07:11 pm:

A little more OT. Who did Hawaii belong to in 1908?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Friday, January 06, 2017 - 07:22 pm:

Steven,
I believe the islands were already a U.S. Territory.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Friday, January 06, 2017 - 07:45 pm:

On July 7, 1898 President McKinley signed the Newlands Resolution thereby creating the Territory of Hawaii.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kirk Peterson on Friday, January 06, 2017 - 08:17 pm:

Tomorrow afternoon I will arrive in Honolulu to see if the sale is on.

OT My Dad was stationed in Honolulu.
God Bless America


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Saturday, January 07, 2017 - 12:15 am:

The six machines are now being opened up - does that mean they are removing them from the crates???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Saturday, January 07, 2017 - 12:49 am:

Uh huh.
Also. Ain't it neat that they made absolutely no bones about pricing? "This is not the factory price, but the cost to you in Honolulu, delivered and ready for use."
A Ford six on the island? Cool.
Whoa. The PEOPLE'S CAR. Just like Volk... Nah, I ain't gonna finish but very interesting... "For the masses."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Wednesday, January 11, 2017 - 02:41 pm:

Hi Rob!

I gather you have not been so well - someone mentioned it to me. I hope you are recovering?

Anyway, to help clear up about Ford's export procedures... for the export cars, the ledger entries include the shipping agent. The cars going to Sydney (no 207 and no 210) are being shipped by Crossman and Sielken (spelling of second name may not be right - I've not checked) and the car going to NZ (211) was shipped by Peabodys. They were the shipping agents appointed by Robert M Lockwood to handle all the Ford exports to those two countries.

Robert M Lockwood was an independent export agent based in NYC. He was located there because NYC was the centre of international trade at the time. He, in turn, appointed his shipping agents, such as Peabodys. I think (going from memory) that Peabodys also handled the shipping to India.

Ford (US and Canada) took a back seat with exports. Everything (ie the paperwork) went through Lockwood from the outset - even export sales! Ford provided Lockwood with 3,000 product brochures and 5% commission on each sale. So, for almost no cost and no risk, the Ford Motor Company got into exporting!

Hope this helps.

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Wednesday, January 11, 2017 - 07:46 pm:

Thanks John,
I've been interest in Ford Canada and export of Model K for some time. With only 1,000 cars produced, K foreign exports help identify where some of K went that may be unaccounted for.

I thought I may have seen one K to a South Africa port, but I don't have the ledgers in front of me at this moment.

Thanks again for shining some light on exports. I would really like to discover some of Lockwood or Ford NY Branch ledgers or account records. Hopefully someday more info will surface.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Sunday, January 15, 2017 - 04:42 am:

Rob

Roger Gardner and I have recently been discussing the export procedures again, and for different reasons. However, Roger has sent me some material that is very relevant to this discussion.

That Ford set up their export business with RM Lockwood is a given. This is true of both the US and the Canadian companies. Lockwood was the export agent, and his offices were at 18 Broadway, NYC. Just as accurate is that he, in turn, appointed shipping agents. For NZ that agent was HW Peabody & Co.

In a letter from The Ford Motor Company - Foreign Department - 18 Broadway - NYC USA dated 29 May, 1908 Lockwood says "We have an agency agreement with H.W. Peabody & Co., of this city and Wellington which covers the New Zealand territory." He goes on to say that "Only a few days ago Messrs. Peabody & Co sent us an order for...".

What is interesting about this is, we can take it that orders for cars were being placed with the shipping agent (ie Peabodys) who, in turn, contacted the Ford export agent (Lockwood). I guess Lockwood then contacted the correct Ford people to order the car/s.

But wait. There's more.

Roger has also given me a copy of a communication from The Ford Motor Company of Canada Ltd, addressed to 'Messrs. Arkell & Douglas, 11 Broadway, NY' which is a receipt of order, I think. It is dated 21 August, 1908 for 1 Roadster Body etc etc and the weights and dimensions are given, plus instructions to 'Notify R M Lockwood. 18 Broadway, NY' for car # 616 going to New Zealand.

Roger's point to me was that things were very untidy! Arkell & Douglas were the shipping agents for South Africa! Indeed, as you may know, Arkell & Douglas became the South African agents for Ford, and other makes, and ran amuck so badly that when Ford of Canada decided to protect their interests by establishing their own subsidiaries in their various overseas territories, they started with South Africa. (Everyone thinks Australia was pretty bad - but SA was worse!)

For me, it is an eye opener as to how untidy things were. Roger was saying that McGregor, who effectively owned Ford of Canada - came to NZ to tidy all this up, in 1909. But NZ was just one country on his worldwide itinerary - he visited all the Ford of Canada territories on that trip.

I think it is fair to say that Ford of Canada now understood the importance of their export market (the season for which came each year in the northern winter, the time when their domestic market had gone quiet!).

Other papers that Roger sent me show that the ordering systems were all over the place - that there was no one strict procedure in place. Which explains why businesses such as Souters and others were writing to Ford of Canada, Ford in Detroit and elsewhere trying to secure an agency in NZ when one already existed! It was messy - and not as clean and systematic as I have previously thought.

And that may explain why, a short time later, Lockwood was 'let go' and Ford of Canada set up their own export division, in house.

Best wishes - John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Koke Twigg-Smith on Sunday, January 15, 2017 - 11:19 am:

This '14 has been owned by one man for over 50 years in Kailua on Oahu. I was born and raised in Honolulu, my Dad had a Model A Phaeton (31) which I "took over" in 1962 at the age of 15. Drove it all through high school, surfboard rack bolted through the top bows. Still have it, but now in Vermont. I remember getting my Dad to stop at a certain corner on the road from Kailua, Kona to Holualoa where my Tutu (grandma) lived, so I could peek into the roadside garage to see if "that old Model T" was still in there. Looked in the garage a few years ago on a visit, it was still there. . .


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