I know some people get sensitive about picking apart someone else's car, but consider this an educational exercise for a newbie. To me, this car, at least at first glance, it just stunning. It really is a beauty. But $50K?? I know its early, and a beauty? But I'd love to hear opinions of others on this car. I suppose if it was a deal, someone would have snatched it up already. I think it's a bit on the pricey side, but I don't know. Like I said, I'm new to this, so this is just for educational purposes for me. What are your thoughts on availability of a car like this, vs price, or any other thoughts about this car? https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ford/model-t/1864061.html
I'll swing first. I know little about the early cars. What's up with the engine serial number? Has it been brazed and re-stamped?
Yes, it's high. It's the asking price in a Hemmings ad by a dealer not terribly familiar with Model T's. "correct black varnish" is humorous. Fords were not black until 1914. I'm not expert enough on the early cars to tell you all the things that are wrong, but the 1920's carburetor is pretty easy to spot even for me. It does appear to have a correct 1910 block. I hate the house numbers tacked on the car. If I had it those would be the first thing to go. I would call fifty grand very optimistic. Unless the dealer gets very lucky, I expect the actual selling price will be well under thirty.
It's a collage of parts, not a true 1910.
The body is a buggy seat on a homemade deck.
Was discussed before.
Was on eBay.
Here's a better eBay link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-Ford-Model-T-/322238966616?forcerrptr=true&hash=ite m4b06f06b58%3Ag%3AyGgAAOSwaB5XvHLF&item=322238966616&nma=true&si=Dpk%252BQNScC%2 52FegWtlDU5u5a7%252FTh3w%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
There is nothing about his car that is from an authentic 1910 Runabout, (but didn't look closely at the engine pics).
The body is 100% bogus and homemade.
There are so many things incorrect with this car it is hard to see much that is right. radiator, seats frame tail light rear fender irons and running boards for starters
And you just know those stupid house numbers were put on with nails or screws, leaving holes to deal with.
I started to make a list of what on this car is not correct for a 1910. I had 2 pages and many were high ticket items. Wrong pan, wrong carb, wrong radiator, wrong tail light, missing top saddle on one side. wrong mounting of a wrong horn, wrong brake rod supports, no engine pans, left front wheel hub is later but right front one appears to be an early one - can't tell. I'll let Russ Furstnow comment on the speedometer stuff at the front wheel but it appears to be wrong setup there too since cast iron wheel gear came much later. Strange wrong exhaust pipe, wrong carb control rod setup at dash, wrong head, Wrong front axle and spindles, wrong lever ends on the steering column which I will guess came from a 1913. Made up coil box likely with later coils in it. Can't tell if the car has a correct 2 piece drive shaft in it since there is no picture of that nor of the hogshead.
I stopped doing it. I really don't enjoy pointing this out but I don't know who owns the car not that it would change what it is. The car is a "driver" quality car and if it runs good you could have a lot of fun in it. The addition of the brass plate "1910" numbers nailed on the car front and back to me represents a lack of respect for the vehicle itself. I just would not do that!
The car is way overpriced in my opinion but I am not a certified appraiser by any means.
The owner of this car showed up at the annual Ohio Jamboree of T's a couple years back. I spoke to him about the car, getting kind of excited about what he might have. Then they handed me the photos to look at. What do you say to a person who KNOWS that they have an authentic 1910 Runabout, but it just ain't so... Don't get me wrong, the guy wasn't a smart ass know-it-all. He was actually very nice, which made it all the harder. I tried to tenderly imply that there may be some parts that are not correct to 1910. His ears just wouldn't work when I spoke those words. I told him he had a nice car and wished him well. He truly believes what he is saying about the car.
All very educational.
Very frustrating to read that the body is 'all original ' in the sale listing, but obviously totally made up according to the more educated eye. A total lesson for 'buyer beware'.
The collector car hobby is populated, generally speaking, by speculators, competitors, and drivers. _But just because someone is a speculating investor doesn't mean he doesn't also cross over into the other categories. _Speculators and competitors overlap a lot because a prize winning car commands a higher price. _And that, there, is sort of the crux of my point:
There are guys out there who, at a glance, can tell you whether a car is original, restored, stock or whatever. _And as you can plainly see, we have folks here on the forum who have that down to a science. _But what if you're not an expert? _What if an apparent, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity presents itself to you and a snap decision is required because you don't have time to assemble a panel of experts to inspect the for-sale car for you? _Well, when a rare automobile is being represented as "correct" and the price reflects that, it will generally be accompanied by some impressive awards, radiator badges and a box of tall trophies. _These will have been presented by a recognized and prestigious organization like the Antique Automobile Club of America. _A big-buck car should come with that stuff. _It doesn't take an expert to notice.
Seems like for $50K, even if the car had all the right parts for a 1910, it should at least have a top, right?
I was wondering about a top as well
What is the price of a open valve engine?? With so much being missrepersented would you give this seller change for a $10.00 without counting it several times?? Run!! Bud.
Opps,Please ignore this post! Bud.
With so much being made up, or at least not original to the year, why are some folks saying it might bring half that price? Are the individual earlier parts worth $25k if ripped apart and sold off? I'm surprised anyone would consider it worth more than $10-15k with so much that is incorrect, or simply fabricated.
I wonder who are the two "experts" mentioned at the bottom of the description?
Not sure where it was stated that it might worth half the asking price. But, even so, those statements may have been made before all of the "problems" were mentioned. Almost everyone here knows a lot about Model T's but, some know more about later cars than earlier ones, (like me), and some are just the opposite. So, even among experienced T guys, results may vary.
Probably Stan & Ollie.
I doubt it was Stan and Ollie, as even they could tell what's what.
I am temporarily hobbled by an at&t gross incompetence failure, internet connection has been dead for a week now.
IF this is the car I think it is? It MAY I say MIGHT have a 1910ish block, and a few other good early parts. But NOT a real 1910 car.
Sadly, some people get caught up on family stories, and believe them. It can be heartbreaking when they cannot accept a truth even from several people that have spent years learning these things.
About all I can say right now. Trying to type on this little tablet drives me nuts!!!!
John, easier to make a list of what is correct for a 1910 car. I couldn't find anything!No list to be made.
Is it just me but are the wheels and tires 30x3 all the way around? Those back tires sure look skinny to me. Dave
The links now go to models and books. Maybe the owner or the dealer saw this discussion and pulled the ad.
Still comes up for me Steve, story and 42 photo's.
Steve, click on the link at the top of the page. The ones you're talking about are the ones on the thread back in August. I did the same thing. Dave