Open Valve Engine

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Open Valve Engine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Curt Brainard on Wednesday, January 11, 2017 - 08:09 pm:

Can someone provide the dimensions of the brass push rod guides for an open valve engine?

Thanks very much,

Curt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, January 11, 2017 - 08:38 pm:

Can't help with the size, there is a NOS set on Ebay at the moment, cast iron ones.
Parts books list them as iron as well, maybe the brass ones were a later replacement type?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, January 11, 2017 - 09:54 pm:

Agree with Frank, originals would be cast iron.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Curt Brainard on Wednesday, January 11, 2017 - 11:54 pm:

I thought that only the valve guides were cast iron and that the push rod guides were brass. All the open valves I have seen in person and pictures are that configuration. Is that not correct?

Thanks,

Curt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 12:25 am:

Early valve guides were I piece cast iron. I've seen some with brass sleeves, but I'm sure that was done on a later rebuild.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 12:51 am:

There was a thread back in 2009 on the subject of guides, as Kim says, brass would be for rebuilds, easier to get than cast.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Skille on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 02:38 am:

Curt asked about push rod guides, as far as I know they were brass. The valve guides were cast iron.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 03:49 am:

Yes Don, and that's what is in that photo, cast iron valve guides and cast iron push rod guides as listed in the period Ford parts books.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 05:22 am:

I found them,
Factory # was 427, no mention of what metal,
up to early 1911, some parts book uses factory part # and some #3059 with no mention of what metal, then the parts books change to 2 part #'s
3059 and 3059-1/2, brass and iron.
Which was first? still a ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robbie Price on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 06:20 am:

I think think Curt is asking about the Tappet (push rod) guides?
I had some made of bronze but I don't have the dimensions handy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 07:00 am:

Yes Robbie, that's what we are talking about.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robbie Price on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 10:01 am:

My originals are June 1909 and they have a spiral in them and are made of brass. I am pretty sure brass came first as I saw number 22 and it had brass Tappet guides in it.
I also had some valve guides made and they were cast as were the originals.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robbie Price on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 10:11 am:

Now I could be wrong as a lot could have been changed in 106 years. My block also did not have any Babbitt on the top mains for the crank. Main caps were babbitted.
Others would know more than I.
I had my Tappet guides cut for an "O" ring also to keep the oil in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 10:19 am:

My '10 is a March car and had brass guides for the lifters. When I got the car it seemed to be an original unmolested engine as everything was worn to the point of being almost unusable. I made new ones out of oilite (sp?)bronze thinking that they would be self lubricating. Seems to work well. I just assumed that was the way they were originally.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Curt Brainard on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 12:10 pm:

Yes, I am asking about what would today be called lifter guides, may be called tappet guides, but I believe in Model T lingo are pushrod guides.

Does anyone have their dimensions?

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 01:24 pm:

Diam .630". The top of the guide sticks above the block .550". It is flush with bottom of block. To get the length add .630" to the thickness of the block where the guide inserts. These are original bronze lifters I measured from a 1910 block. You can get modern bronze valve guides the right diameter and hole size for the lifters, but they are too long so you have to cut them down. Sorry, I can't give the actual length, but cam is in the block and I have no way to measure it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 01:33 pm:

Oops, add .550 to the thickness of the block to get the right length. Unlike what Frank shows in the photo, the lifter guides are the same diameter as the hole in the block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Curt Brainard on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 02:21 pm:

Richard,
Thanks very much!
Curt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robbie Price on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 05:00 pm:

Curt,
I can measure mine too if I can locate them.
What year engine are you working on?

Robbie


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Spencer Vibert - Granby ,CT on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 05:29 pm:

I think its for Curt's 1909 touring


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 06:13 pm:

Brass lifter guide is from my 1909. It's 1.560 tall, .626 of and .436 Id. Cast iron valve guide is also 1909.


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