Routing wires on my '21

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Routing wires on my '21
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 09:44 am:

I know the wiring is simple on Ts. All the wiring was in place in my car when I bought it, but most wires were disconnected and hanging loose. I have figured out where all the wire reconnect but one thing has me puzzled, though. The bundle of wires that include the left headlight, one to the starter switch, the one to the taillight, and the one from mag to junction on the firewall has me puzzled. All the terminals on the ends look the same, but I don't know if any wires have been shortened or not. My problem is, if I route the bundle so that the mag wire and the one to the starter switch reach the two for the LH headlight is too short. I must not be routing them correctly. How do they go? Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 10:23 am:

It is possible you have the wrong loom. There are three separate looms.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 11:30 am:

I'm sure the one I have was on the car before. Starting at the junction block , do the wires go between the steering column and the engine? Where do the taillight wire and the one to the starter switch go?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 11:39 am:

I might be wiring it upside down . I figured the wires I'm wondering about went from the junction block down. I see now that might not be correct, the wires might connect to the terminal block top.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 12:46 pm:


As I read the parts book, your 1921 wiring would be like this on my 1923 touring. The loom going down on the right, to the lights battery and magneto, is plenty long enough to reach all the places it's supposed to reach. If yours doesn't, maybe it's the wrong one as Larry suggests, although that wouldn't explain why it used to fit and doesn't now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 12:57 pm:

Thanks. I suppose my wiring should look like yours, Steve. My firewall is wood though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 01:30 pm:

Yes, wood through 1922 for starter cars. Interestingly, the later parts books show the steel dash as a replacement from 1917 on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 03:26 pm:

A different view with a 1922 wood firewall.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 03:31 pm:

Steve, even though the factory never supplied one, I would sure use a grommet in that firewall hole to help keep the wires from chafing. You can slit one side of the grommet, slip it around the wires, then fit it into the hole.

I would use one on my '24, but my reproduction wire harness is fully wrapped with black cotton wrapping where it goes through the hole and it fits so closely that there is no room for a grommet. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 03:52 pm:

Ford did supply a rubber grommet with the early low hood metal dash.


engine side view


under the cowl view


The later high metal dash got a tooled upset to form a smooth thick area around the stamped hole.


High metal dash

Another example of Ford's constant tooling and design improvements to eliminate extra pieces and drive the cost of the Ford down!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 04:30 pm:

Thanks Dan, I learned something new today! :-)

I'll have to take a closer look at my early '24 high dash to confirm that it has that upsetting on that hole.

Follow up - I just looked at my '24 and it does indeed have the upsetting around that hole! The upsetting is on the inside of the firewall, only visible from the passenger compartment.


(Message edited by cudaman on January 16, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 04:53 pm:

Yep, a grommet there is one of the items on my long list of things for that car. Ruckstell, AC brakes, top, "new" engine, grommet. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 04:57 pm:

Can I hi-jack this post a little and ask what the correct fasteners are to hold the harness clips to the firewall?

This in particular is a '25, but I was doing some searching and came up empty handed in general.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 06:07 pm:

It is interesting to see how some folks have routed the spark plug wires. All the factory wiring pictures, and the pics of the "Rip Van Winkle" car show the #4 wire going straight down from the coil over to the plug, #3 is routed similarly, above the #4 wire, No 2 goes almost straight out to the plug, but is above #3, and #1 is, if anything, a bit towards the Right and also almost straight out to the #1 plug. The only reason this might be important is if the insulation goes a little bad, the would be less chance of sparking across to another wire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 09:46 pm:

Like this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 10:30 pm:

I worked for another hour on it and still can't figure out how the harness can fit. I'm sure the one I have is the one that came off of the car. One thing that might be messing me up is that someone possibly shortened the wire that originally went to the starter switch, intending to connect it to the starter. Of course, that won't work because that terminal is "hot" only when the starter is engaged.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Plank - Three Way, TN on Monday, January 16, 2017 - 10:57 pm:

Tommy, the wire that connects to the starter switch should be on the hot side of the switch. Maybe your wire was shortened to put in an in line fuse? Some here will recommended you put one there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 09:54 am:

Tommy you stated that the wires were hanging loose when you got your car. It could be the previous owner couldn't get the wiring to fit correctly either.
With that said its possible the questionable wiring loom may not be the right one or it could made incorrectly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 12:07 pm:

A lot of the early repro wiring harnesses were not made correctly, not to mention they didn't even have the color codes correct. Maybe you should get a new harness and be done with it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 12:07 pm:

The harness I'm dealing with has 5 wires in it. The 2 for the LH headlite will be fine, as will the one for the taillite. I will replace the one to the mag and the one to the starter switch. I will replace the complete 2 wires rather than splice them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 12:58 pm:

Steve,
Yes, that's it!
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 02:24 pm:

Someone might have put in a solenoid with a switch somewhere else and had not used the original starter switch. So the wire would have been cut to fit. Anyway, that is not a big problem unless you want to be exactly correct in your restoration. You can get a piece of yellow wire and connect to the battery side of the starter switch to the terminal block and clip off the short wire.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 03:51 pm:

I will try to use the old wires to pull the new wires thru the cover.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 04:05 pm:

The loom you might find is like a Chinese puzzle, the harder you pull the wire the tighter the loom will get. I would use a butt splice connector, soldered, then have a piece of shrink tubing that can be slid over the connection.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 04:07 pm:

By the way, the covering is not slid into place, it's woven over the wire bundle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 04:44 pm:

I'm most concerned with the original look of the headlite wires that are visible with the hood closed. I suppose I will do whatever it takes on the other wires.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 05:25 pm:

Speaking of headlites ... I didn't get any with my car so I bought some, 4 or 5, at a swap-meet and painted the 2 best ones after sandblasting. I got 2 good shiny reflectors in the deal and I have 2 good lenses. They are the correct ones, with only one socket, in the center of the bucket. Problem is the connectors/thimbles on my harnesses wont fit into the sockets. There is no apparent damage to either part.


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