Noticed the other day some oil leaking from behind the left rear wheel of Otis so I removed the wheel and brake shoes and the photo shows where I am at this point. Is that the outer grease seal showing in the middle, and how do I remove it? Looking inside the seal I don't see anything that's acting as a seal.
There is no seal showing in your picture.
Should be two,, one inside and another outside. Buy the new modern seals and never have any more leaks
Looking at you photo, I can't see how any seal would work on it, the old original felt or modern, your axle key is going way to deep into the housing.
Something isn't right, has it got a floating bearing on the hub?
Frank, yes on the floating bearing. I'm not embarrassed to admit I don't know the difference, but I have been told it is a floating bearing. Is there a good way to install a seal? Thanks
Ask Ross in College Station, TX
Text him that image with your question.
Tell him Freighter Jim told you you to call & bug him ....
Just did that Jim, thanks and I'll pass along any suggestions he might make.
John, when I make floating bearing assemblies, the part you show fitted to the housing has a modern oil seal fitted on the inside end. Yours may be the same. If you pull it out you may find yours is made similarly. Then all you need to do is replace the seal and refit the spiggot. If not, it may pay to have the spiggot machined to take a seal.
If a fully sealed bearing is used, that will give you a second protection against oil leaks.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Allan, I'm pretty sure you are correct in your diagnosis of the problem. I removed a set-screw that was inside the grease cup right behind the backing plate, however the steel sleeve seems to be stuck/really tight and no luck getting it out. Even used a large wrench but it's very tight. Might see if my wife can "talk it out?" I'll keep messing with it but now it's time for supper. Thanks,
I think most of those bearings are held in by the grease nipple at the rear. It must be removed before the bearing can be moved.
I did remove the grease cup/set screw, however the bearing housing is still very tight and I haven't been able to move it at all. But, I'll get it out even if I have to call one of the grandmonkeys to do it.
John, I recommend installing the spiggots with Loktite flexible flange sealant around the outside diameter. If yours were fitted with a Loktite mounting product, you may have to use a little heat to break it down.
Failing that, you may be able to drill and tap two holes in the end of the spiggot to takes some all thread and use those and a bridging piece to pull the spiggot out.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
John, I've had a better idea. Just put Otis back together and ship him to me. I estimate I could have the repair done within the next 10 years, depending on how much road testing will be necessary.
Allan from down under.
Well, Allan, there have been time I've considered that, however I'm not sure Otis could operate if he were upside down?? I have 3 Model Ts in the garage and can't seem to find enough time to drive them as much as I'd like. As much as I have driven old cars the last many years I don't think any of them have brought out as many smiles as Otis---he has a strong personality, for sure.
Just couldn't help posting a picture of Otis with his shoes on, and dressed for work.
"...the steel sleeve seems to be stuck..." Are you using the sleeve puller? So far that works for me.
Thanks Steve. You always come up with some good ideas on how to do stuff. However, the sleeve you pulled out is a lot different/thinner than what I'm dealing with, plus I don't have a puller like that. By the way Steve, I'm a geezer too but I don't think I'm very dauntless though. But I'm tryin'.
Otis is a true "charmer". Thanks for sharing John
John, if you ever have to pull some stock Ford sleeves, the puller I used is available from all the parts dealers for about $14.
John..no expert here, but if that has the so-called modern bearing/seal setup, similar to what I have on my '13 it looks like part of it is "gone". I have one that has some decent wear on the outer face of it due to the shim rubbing on it and grinding at the metal. Stopped it with a big steel washer between the shim and the bearing assembly. I'm wondering if yours didn't have some similar wear and literally ate it up, mine, at least, has needle bearings at each end, and if worn away enough, out comes the bearings! Unless you have some different kind of setup, which of course is possible. I do know the modern bearing setups seem to be that once they're "in there", they're there to stay. I got a hunch you're gonna have to open up the axle housing to "gut it" and start anew.
Agree with Tim - it is a modern cartridge bearing and something has gone terribly wrong. I would pull it apart to see what's happening.
There's no sleeve to pull Steve.
Not sure I agree with Tim & Royce on its being a cartridge bearing, (if I understand correctly what their meaning of cartridge bearing is).
Please show us a photo of the inner surface of the wheel hub. That should clear things up as to what type of bearing you've got. I suspect there is a seal mount way inboard of of what you show in your photo.
Jerry, I agree we need to see the brake drum. Mine showed the scoring marks. I have a pic somewhere of the bearing, I'll try to find it and post it. But what concerns me is the clear lack of anything showing at the very outer end of the axle tube. No bearing, no sleeve, nada. Like Royce said, something is terribly wrong here. And I'm wondering if something isn't HORRIBLY wrong inside the differential, as to why that axle keyway is so far inward. I think Otis was/is telling John to "fix me" before a horrible accident happens. Thank goodness he couldn't hold his "bladder" any longer!!
What's showing in the photo is the stub end that fits in the axle tube in place of the sleeve & Hyatt bearing and supports the big ball bearing that will likely be seen in Tim's hub photo. The space between the stub end and axle shaft would be completely normal to see in that situation. Usually however, there would be a seal there, yes. But it's also entirely possible that the seal is at the other end of the stub, i.e. the inboard end. If you were to take a rear wheel of my speedster, it would look identical to Tim's photo. I made my own floating bearings to exactly this design.
Jerry, I looked at that pic at the top again, (and again), yeh, now I'm not so sure it is/was a cartridge type bearing either. And I admit I'm not up on the floating hub stuff to comment much..at first I thought I was looking at the axle tube end, but it's too thick for that. Looking further "inward" then it sure seems that the end of the axle tube is very very short, I would've expected to see more. Maybe it had to be cut off for whatever application this is? Either way, it looks like a big issue here that as I mentioned is probably gonna require a complete tear down, if he can't get this "thing" out of the axle housing.
Jerry, we're almost typing "on top of each other"! Yes, I think I just learnt something today! Which is good! You can see by my post 6 mins. after yours I'm starting to figure that out even on my own, not bad for my lame brain! Ha ha. This is what I love about this hobby & the forum, always something to learn. I still think though he's gonna have to rip open the axle housing if he can't get it out by some means externally. Hopefully he can.
Is there a flange/bearing assembly bolted inside your wheel- that looks to me like on half of a safety hub assembly- did you use a a puller to remove the wheel without releasing the housing spud? Can you post a picture of the inside of your brake drum?
The stub piece is usually held in place by a set screw or bolt located where the grease cup used to be. After that, some tugging will usually free the stub piece and let it come out. Yes, the axle tube gets cut short when this type of bearing is installed.
John, If you decide to ship Otis to Australia, don't forget to swap the wheels and tires from left to right. This is necessary to offset the reversed Coriolis effect in the southern hemisphere
Here is the inside of the brake drum, etc
I suspect, if you look way down inside, between the clearance around the axle shaft, you might see a seal down at the far end. If so, that's what needs to be replaced. You'll have to remove the stub shaft in order to get at it. As I mentioned, there will be a bolt or set screw located where the grease cup used to be.
It looks like some of the hub bolts have been running against something. I nominate the perch and perch nut for that distinction (see first picture). Now, what do you suppose that means?
I'm thinking that I also see the edge of a shim inside the hub.
Steve- you are correct- on small drum rearends, the perch nut and end of the perch threads come very close to the wheel bolt heads when safety hubs are installed.
John, what you have is a floating bearing assembly. There will be a seal on the inside end of the spiggot. The spiggot will need pulling and a new seal fitted to it. When re-fitting it to the car, put some masking tape over the keyway in the axle to prevent damage to the seal as the spiggot is fitted. If the mounting nuts for the bearing carrier have been scraping on the perch nut, you will need a shim o the axle to space the wheel out a tad.
The bearing in your wheel is a shielded bearing. If a sealed version of the same bearing is available, it should be used. A sealed bearing requires no lubrication, and will also afford extra sealing of the assembly, as oil should not be able to leak past it when fitted.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
PS my offer still stands!
Sure do appreciate all the good advise. I have messed with the problem all day and there is just no way that I can remove the bearing assembly and get to the seal. Ross Lilleker is nearby and he's worked on Otis in the past. I'll probably take Otis over there and have Ross make it right. This could be a safety issue and I want to make sure it's done right and make sure Otis is happy. Otis has lived with us for about 3 1/2 years and I'll consider options when he's back here and road worthy. Thanks again,
Sometimes people put RTV on the stub shaft O.D. to seal it. It also makes an excellent glue... Russ will definitely do a good job!
Leaking seals have been an issue on this forum for years. Originally a light grease was used, at the factory #2 grease was used, there are however further directives indicating that the correct compound be used. A compound would be a blending of greases to attain the right constituency #1 and 00 mixes are good for this purpose. Originally there were no seals. The outer bearings are greased by removing the plug and inserting a grease nipple. The outer felt is just a dust protector and should be replaced at regular intervals. When this subject surfaced some time ago I was all but buried in comments, however there was no confirmation that oil was ever used.
I too am headed to Mr. Model T in College Station next week to pick up Robert's Touring T headed to Florida.