Wire harness clip hardware

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Wire harness clip hardware
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 06:17 am:

I tried to sneak this in the routing wires thread but it got passed over.

Can someone show/tell what the correct hardware is to attach the harness clips to the firewall? This would be for my '25, but the topic is open for discussion for other years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 07:04 am:

Here's 22-25 wire routing.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 07:23 am:

Ops! You said hardware, not location. Sorry. I believe it's 8-32 x 3/4" round-head screws with lock washer and square nut on the cabin side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 01:04 pm:

That wire routing is NOT entirely correct! For a 1924-5 the main harness goes between the upper and lower coil box porcelains. If you don't believe me, check the Ford Service Book!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 01:23 pm:

He's right! Look at figures 13, 38, 39, , 60, and possibly others. :-)

You say you can't see because you don't have a service book? Then get one! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 01:26 pm:

It wouldn't be the first time the Ford Service Bulletins have been wrong. The drawing is from December 1921 (for model year '22). I assumed it carried forward until the '26 drawing came out in the August 1925 SB.

Ford probably shortened the cross-over harness to save a few pennies. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 02:08 pm:

Yup, probably why my question didn't get answered on the other thread.... Nobody truly read what I posted.

I guess Stephen must be right, because he is the only one that answered about the attaching hardware for the harness clips.

I'm sorry if this is a bit cynical of an reply, just something I see far to often on here from posters and replyers were posts aren't fully read.

I will use the 8-32 x 3/4 and square nuts as posted above, as it is way more correct than what is there currently.

Thank You


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 02:11 pm:

Yes Mark, I do indeed have a service manual, it does not call out the hardware to attach the clips with.

Thank You


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 02:29 pm:

Larry, thanks for the note. I added it to the print that I saved--BUT! Barney's harness, with Ford tag on it was above the insulators like the drawing--Barney is about May of '25, did the change happen later?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:12 pm:

PS, Chad, if I could get to Barney, I'd look to see what fasteners are there. If I remember by the time I can get "up the hill" (we're having some, for California, yeachy weather that make access up the hill difficult). As untouched as this car is, they're likely to be the originals.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:12 pm:

'24 wire routing on dash via coil terminals


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:29 pm:

Chad

Most of the harness clips are held with small carriage head bolts, the clip, then lock washer and square nuts or hex nuts (mostly found on dash) on top. Check out Service Manual, Fig. 109, Fig 111, Fig 112, and dash view at Fig115Fig 93, and 94.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 04:38 pm:

Sorry, Chad, my bad. If I had been sure that I knew the right answer on your question about clips and their hardware, I would have posted an answer. Instead, I let it pass in the hope that someone more knowledgeable than me would step in.

When I saw Larry's comment about the routing of the harness, I checked my copy of the manual to confirm and he was right. Now I have one more "to do" on my list to make my car more faithful to the original. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:07 pm:

It's ok Mark and all, my apologies, and I really appreciate the responses. I really need to not try and be on the forum while at work, it just gets me wound up vs. being home and relaxed. The reading of posts (I feel anyhow) is something I have noticed all to often though. At least if the spelling police are out I know they are actually reading, LOL.

Dan, Do you know if those nuts and bolts in your pic are 8-32 size as Stephan posted above?

David, yes when you get a chance to see if you can figure the size of the hardware.

I know it's not necessarily going to make my vehicle a show winner, but I am trying to correct as much previous hackery as I can on my little pickup.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:41 pm:

Chad

Those small carriage bolts are all 1/4 x 20.

The bigger ones on the dash brackets that hold clips are 5/16 dia.

That stubby carriage bolt shown is the ones on the frame rail, fit into those square holes in the frame, hold the loom clips, and are covered up by the hood shelves. They need to be short because of the hood shelves are overhead and you don't want them to stick up too much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:47 pm:

Awesome Dan, now we are getting somewhere. I have none of this stuff on my pickup so it is very helpful.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:55 pm:

Some pics from the '23 showing a few of the clip placements for looms.



Ford Service shows this headlamp loom with the nut on top of the frame rail, I put these with carriage head up and nut below. But on the Ford assembly line can understand why nuts on top.....easy to fasten quickly, very quickly. No reaching under the frame rail to twist a wrench!




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:12 pm:

So it also appears that all the hardware and clips were left a natural finish too. That's good to know also, as I probably would have painted them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:19 pm:

So sitting here kind of letting my mind wander, do you think the small carriage bolts that hold the coil box on the metal firewall are also the same that would hold the clips to the firewall?

Also the clip you show holding the headlamp wiring looks like it is the same as the gas feed pipe clamp, I wonder if it is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:27 pm:

They were probably raven finished--a chemical coating that is satin black, and rusts fairly easily, but not as easy as unfinished metal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:36 pm:

Hi Chad,

No, I don't believe that the fuel line clamps were ever used by the factory to hold any wire or wire loom. The wire looms which run along by the hood shelf ought to be held by the hood shelf wire clip #5033HS. All of the clips and their mounting hardware would have been raven finished.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:50 pm:

Chad

Loom clips are p/n 5033-C

The gas line clip p/n 2816 is a bit different, has a cut tabs to keep it from rotating.


p/n 2916

The firewall bolts are bigger, are the ones used for the dash brackets or steering column to dash.

The little guy for the frame/fender bolts may be same as coil box. The fender apron to frame bolt is p/n 4808C 1/4" dia. x 5/8" length, the loom clip pair are held by that bolt.

The nut for the p/n4808C is p/n3088E same sq. nut used for the long carriage bolt, 1/4 dia. x 3 5/8" that goes thru the hood shelves, and holds the engine pans too.

That coil box carriage bolt needs a very tiny head, hardware store bolts have too wide a head.

Ford Parts books for the year T you are working on are very handy!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:53 pm:

Interesting Bill, as if you look close at the first of the three photos from Dan above, it is split in the middle and bent virtually identical as the fuel line clamp.

Raven finish would make sense, as it was used a lot. To me the one clip Dan shows by the steering column looks bare and slightly surface rusted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:59 pm:

Thank You Dan again. Parts Books? As a parts guy I hate to have to look at parts books when I come home. Seriously, that truly was a "DUH" moment, not sure why I didn't think of that. I did buy them after all.

But the conversation of all this may also help someone in the future. Going to go look at my parts book now...:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 09:05 pm:

This is a great thread. After re-routing my harness to match the service manual, I found that I am missing one firewall clip and I
have the wrong clips on the hood shelf. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 09:09 pm:

Chad, I may be mis-reading you, but you ask if the coilbox bolts are the same as those used to hold the wiring clips? On our Canadian sourced cars, I have never found separate bolts holding a wiring clip. The coilbox bolts are used as required. Others include the the steering column flange bolts and the frame to firewall mounting bolts and the firewall to body mounting bolts. These are both 1/4" and 5/16" bolts, and the clips have oversize holes which will allow fitment to either, and I suspect 3/8" as well.

I believe they were raven finished, as were those used along the frame to hold the looms going forward to the headlights.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 10:34 pm:

Allan, Would you have any pictures of the setup for a visual aid? I should probably follow what a Canadian vehicle has being that is what I have. I tend to follow what American cars have unless someone like yourself points out something different.

This is an interesting thread that will hopefully clear up some things for myself and others.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 12:30 am:

"...raven finished--a chemical coating that is satin black, and rusts fairly easily..." I would (I do) depart from factory correctness far enough to use satin black Rustoleum. Rusting Raven, Nevermore!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 05:33 am:

Steve, I use DP-90! Over-thinned, it develops a sheen very much like Raven finish and it's pretty tough. But SHHH! don't tell anyone, can't let out all the restoration secrets!
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 11:40 am:

The clip that Bill posted is indeed correct for the early T's with the heavy loom tube, but I doubt if they were used much past the brass era. I'm glad that Dan Treace posted the photos of the clips and screws used for the later T's. They are all correct.
When I restored my '25, I used the Ford Service book as a guide for the placement of the clips, and retainers. You can't dispute original Ford photos. The touring they used is a 1924.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 05:48 pm:

Chad, FWIW, I make the small head carriage bolts and correct hex nuts for the coilbox, and yes, they are the same bolt as the loom clip bolt and nut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 05:59 pm:

RV, you say the coilbox bolts you make are the same as the loom clip bolts. Is this because one of the coilbox bolts is used as the loom clip holder? Are your nice bolts ever used as separate loom clip bolts away from the coilbox?

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 08:39 pm:

Allan, somewhere in my Archives notes I have written down all the places on the chassis where, according to Ford, those nuts and little bolts are used. I will dig around and find it. May take awhile; my notes are only semi-organized.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 10:03 am:

Usually I don't disagree with RV! But in this case I will. As far as I remember, those perfect little bolts he has pictured are for mounting the late coil box only.


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