Need some help - Speedster lowering

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Need some help - Speedster lowering
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 09:59 am:

Ok,
so ive read the forums and gone back over the years to try and see how to properly lower/undersling my speedster. I want to make sure to do it
1. safely
2. period correct
3. without destroying anything (including myself)

My issue is that I have looked at SO many different ways, that my brain is confused by the options. Also, I am not able to do it myself for lack of proper equipment.

I live in the Poland Ohio area and I have many great resources here (Snyder, etc.) but I think I need someone who knows the ropes to do it for me. any ideas?

I have the rear cross member from the gentleman in California who fabricates the brackets, mine is ready to go with the brackets pre-welded in place. I just would need to cut the frame and fit. The front end is where I am unclear.

I have considered doing the Clayton version with inverted perches and extended bolts to push the axle out in front of the spring, but doesn't that put a lot of strain on that little perch?

Regardless, is there anyone known in my area that could do this job for me??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 10:41 am:

David,

It all depends just how low you want to go. The easiest way to lower the front is just to buy a dropped front axle. It gives about 2.5" drop. Also use 26/27 spindles and a 26/27 spring. Should be all you need with minimal fuss and danger. Do NOT drop the front or rear by removing spring leaves. It changes the handling in dangerous ways by allowing too much bounce and also causes bottoming.

Lowering is just like adding speed equipment. The more serious you get, the more difficult and the more expensive. Don't get too radical and you'll be o.k.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 12:09 pm:

Here's an easy period way to lower the front end 4" - a bolt on bracket for the frame that moves the whole front axle and spring forward and up:
https://www.modeltford.com/item/2691LB.aspx

The only problem will be that the wishbone ball won't reach back to its seat in the oil pan, some lengthening needed. But I'm sure you can find someone who can weld in a couple of pieces of pipe to make the wishbone fit.

If you want a little more lowering, you may try a '26/'27 spring and the '26/'27 style spindles if you haven't already got them. They're easy to find used parts. And with the main leaf turned upside down and the second leaf ground a bit shorter in the ends, you'll get 1" more lowering :-)

Just check so the tie rod goes free - may need some tampering, if the lowering is radical - and the oil pan can get quite close to the ground too with radical lowering.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 01:29 pm:

Thanks Jerry & Roger

- I had no idea the '26/'27 spring was different/able to be used. I have been on the lookout for the 26/27 spindles though.
I have the dropped front axle already, but looking for a few more inches. My oil plug is flying high!
I wont "remove" springs, but maybe the reversed eye isn't a bad idea. Whats the difference with the 26/27 spring? I can see on the spindles.
would i have to reverse the eyes on the spring or can i just flip it upside down and squeeze it into submission?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 02:25 pm:

Here how I lowered my rear differential small brake. Drop about 6-7 inches


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 02:33 pm:

king Martin - how was this done? drive shaft mods?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 02:41 pm:

David I have a reverse eye main spring in the front and the back, it gets you about 1 more inch further down. Would recommend just purchasing one ready to go instead of modifying the one you have.

King Martin's lowering is pretty advanced on the rear end. What is done is the housings on the rear axle are swapped left and right and then turned upside down. You have to keep the ring gear on the driver's side (otherwise you have two speeds in reverse!). The idea is to put the shackle mounts on the underside of the axle, then run a long bolt from the rear through the shackle mount, then the spring, then to a hanger mounted to the radius rods. The result is a good 6-7" drop as he mentioned, but it also moves the rear end backwards 3-4".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:31 pm:

David,

The 26/27 spring has a lower arch. Along with other small changes, it was meant to make the "Improved Ford" sit a little lower and look a bit more modern. A true 26/27 front axle also has a bit more "swoop" between the perches to allow for the lower spring and prevent bottoming out.

You can also look for Overland front spindles which I believe will hold T wheels and has the spindle all the way at the top end.

If you go lower than a regular drop axle you start to get interference between your drag link/tie rod and your engine pan. Don't just bend either one without substantially reinforcing it afterward!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:33 pm:

Seth, you are correct about the flipping the axle housings. Actually, it doesn't move rear end back, it stays in stock location because of the stock length driveshaft. The spring is moved forward and then one has two options; either cut the frame and shorten it or, as I did, move the rear crossmember forward to relocate on top of rear spring. Anyway, it works nicely especially if you are building your own speedster body.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:37 pm:

Or, add a second rear cross member ahead of the existing one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:58 pm:

True to that as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 04:02 pm:

This is all so very helpful. I dont want to do anything that looks ridiculous or gets me or anyone else hurt. I thank you all for such useful help - i plan on doing this soon

feel free to post millions of pictures of these options as i am a visual learner!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 04:04 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 04:18 pm:

Here's a description from 2005 where I tell how I dropped the rear. Somewhere I posted pics but can't find them now. This was done on a 26 rear end.

From 2005:

"There is no need to cut a frame to lower the rear. You move the rear spring behind the rear axle.

Remove the rear spring perches. In their place, bolt on a steel plate, 1/4 thick, that angles down and to the rear of the axle tube. In the lower end of that plate, mount your perches.

This moves the spring back and behind the frame cross member. For my car, I bent a 1/4 steel plate to the curvature of the rear cross member and attached it to the top surface of the cross member with "U" bolts. The plate extends back to the spring which is also "U"-bolted to it. Doing this will require you to brace the rear cross member so the offset mounting doesn't make it want to twist or roll forward. I added two braces coming from the center of the cross member and angling out to each frame rail. At the attachment point to the frame rails I also added a cross brace to tie in the two ends. In other words, the bracing forms a triangle with two points on the frame rails and one on the cross member."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 07:42 pm:

Message sent


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 07:46 pm:

For the front I used a set of laurel style brackets that relocated spring behind and below axle. Had Sid of Nostalgia Sid's, in Guthrie, OK put a 3" drop on the axle and stretched back to 52" length. I had him dip the axle in the middle because I Wad afraid the crank would hit a straight axle. The stock crank rests 6" off the ground in the down position. The wishbone is a apco part and is uncut.

Bottom line is there is a hundred ways to lower a speedster it just depends on your taste and what you have to work with. I am with you though what ever you do engineer it to be safe!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 11:37 am:

You could also try to source British Drop frame parts. It is factory 3" drop compared to the US production parts. You will need, a Rear Crossmember, Spindles, Axle, and radius rod.

Mike

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/375948.html


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