OCF and MM Changes - - Part 2

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: OCF and MM Changes - - Part 2
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:27 pm:

I'm starting a new thread because the other was soooo long and I think, now that the letter is out, the tone and tenor has changed.


I hated to be the bearer of bad news that started this thread. But now that we have received the letter, the news is much worse than I knew or could have imagined.

Part of me is glad that I resigned as consultant and narrator and, therefore, not a part of this debacle. Another part of me wishes that if I had stayed on, maybe we would have had a voice in the matter.

This whole thing fills me with much anger and much, much sadness.

To take a supremely unique old car event and potentially ruin it and turn it into something akin to a concours is unconscionable and frankly, rotten.

Although I understand the "space limitations" I don't understand the methods of solving the "problem" this way. (Although, a lot of car shows would be delighted to have such a problem.) I am absolutely certain there are other solutions that can be reached without alienating the participants, without whom there would be no OCF.

If this is the way they want to solve it, okay. But 50 percent of Pass-In-Review participants BY INVITATION ONLY!!! What does that solve?????? Having narrated PIN for 35 years, it was something the visitors loved. Although there were time constraints, it was never really a problem

It's there backyard and they can do what they want, I guess.

I am in favor of starting a signed petition -- as Michael suggested -- to give to the powers that be. I have no problem spearheading this, if there is enough interest. We also should get involved the AACA, HCCA, VMCCA, etc.

Tim, I am not suggesting a boycott. But I am suggesting that the "powers that be" be made known of participants feelings and, perhaps, suggest a meeting of representatives with the signer of the letter, John Neilson.

What do you think?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:35 pm:

Let's do it Marty!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:36 pm:

Now you're on to something. Rather than fly off the handle and stick it to them it would be better to reach out as a group to discuss what's working and what's not.

It's always best to have solutions ready for the offering after calling out the negatives.

Of course this is just my opinion...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 04:18 pm:

I've no skin in this, living way to far away to go on my budget, but Marty, how about posting the letter in its entirety for all of us to read. So far we are reacting only to what is "reported."
I do think the "non-refundable $50 application fee" is absurd. I actually could see something like a $5 fee, MAYBE, if they have a paid person sorting through them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:23 pm:

David, I'm not on my home computer but I will do that tomorrow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:25 pm:

Scanned them just now......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:31 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:38 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:38 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:39 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:45 pm:

Marty,

Yes, this is the way to go!

If in the end, nothing changes then I too, will be among those opting out. They will not cancel the longest running old car event in the United States. As Marty said in the previous thread, when there was reduced participation, they will make changes to bring the participants back! If the general public knew of these absurd changes, they would be on our side. Guaranteed!

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Dizer on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:48 pm:

I own two model T's but have never had them to the festival. Instead, I and my wife have been bringing antique bicycles and tricycles to attend with the Wheelman group. We have been bringing six bikes and trikes, conservatively valued at about $45,000, and spending over $1000.00 in gas, fuel food and lodging. We have always enjoyed demonstrating the bikes to people, and I have no idea how many people we have put on our high wheel tricycle for photos and to let them try to ride it! We missed the festival last year because there was an event at a museum that PAID our group $400.00 for four hours of display and a short demonstration! Plus we had another display the day before that paid the group $100.00, so we made our group $500 for the weekend. This year we may have the same events again, so guess where we will be headed, even if we were accepted! OCF has forgotten that without the car and bike owners who are spending a large amount of their own money to to be there, there wouldn't be much to attract the paying public to the place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:48 pm:

The non refundable $50.00 fee is absurd and it used to be do not send your fee until notified of acceptance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When i read the letter i see car show several times. If they clean up the non refundable i might but until then NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:48 pm:

Ed, thanks.

Now, I'm just not sure how to go about getting an on-line petition going. I can compose something, but, how do I get everyone to electronically sign it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:56 pm:

William, you are probably the one who put my youngest son, Sam on a high wheeler in 2015. He still talks about it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 06:01 pm:

Gray on gray is not an ideal format to read. Let's turn up the contrast.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 06:15 pm:

Thank you Steve!!Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 07:11 pm:

Oh, I see,..... the last line in the 4th paragraph, which is italicized so you won't miss it, clears it all up for me, as it says,..... "If your application is denied, the fee will not be refunded, as it is an application fee, not a participation fee."

This is the sort of thing that really "gets my goat"! Not so much that they're trying to screw people out of fifty bucks, but that someone thinks we're stupid enough to accept such a stupid "explanation"!!!

I wonder what the guy that dreamed up that dumb idea would think if the IRS charged him a $50.00 fee to "APPLY" to file his income tax, and another fee if his application is accepted, or, another fee if his application is denied. Same logic, right?

Sheeeesh! I guess I could have been a politician (except that I really do consider myself to be reasonably honest!)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 07:31 pm:

That non refundable application fee is just mind blowing. Makes you wonder what the true intent is. I'm in Canada. At the current exchange rate, that's more than $75.00!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:03 pm:

I'm amazed at the gall of a non-refundable fee! That's absurd. Did some "bean counter" see an opportunity?

$50 I can swallow, considering the other expenses I incur to be there (hotel, travel, etc.). I wonder if there is another tour at about the same time to consider?

Another thought is, continue the Dearborn to Lansing tour (only about 50 cars participate, primarily 1908 and earlier). Expand a tour like this, and let THF along with Piquette and other area attractions be part of the tour. That way THF gets their due (one day of passes for tour participants who wish to go there) and we still have the opportunity to visit and tour the area.

Hopefully reason will prevail and someone will "rethink" this...
Rob Heyen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Dizer on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:49 pm:

Another possibility is that this is a way to do away with the whole OCF. Run it into the ground by getting rid of the reason to have it, the display vehicles. They are not letting in any new participants, so it will become the same cars that people saw last year. A lot of the fun is to see what's new each year, at least for me. The next question to me is: How many entrants are they actually going to allow? Last year was 650 or so, down from 900 in 2015. When I entered my bikes in the past, I paid the $25, and then up to the max of $35, and brought all six to the festival. I would rotate my stock, and bring something different each year as well. I have not gotten any letter for cars or bikes and, since I didn't enter last year, may not get one at all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:57 pm:

I think 2017 would have made 18 or 19 ocf's in a row and the wife always in dress of the times! We keep our 14 very close to org,and have been a great friend of the ocf for many years. I feel we have been taken advantage of!!!! Bud DeLong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 09:03 pm:

I have never attended the OCF nor would ever be likely to do so. (Too far away and not a sufficiently interesting car.) I have been following this thread and my basic reaction is, "If the OCF has lost Bud DeLong, they have really screwed up!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 09:11 pm:

Bud,as you know last year was my 1st time at ocf. I drove a buddys car so I had no idea about cost. It was all new and great to me. Was looking forward to this year and entering my RPU and Joe and his Scripps Booth. If they dont let new cars in it will be pretty boring! Not refunding the money if your not accepted is crazy. I cant run my business that way. To bad!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 09:16 pm:

Ok, lets face it: The OCF as we knew it is dead!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 09:16 pm:

I have met several of you.

Whether when delivering a car or having a cup of coffee or sharing a meal.

Do you own a Model T because you consider yourself an Elitist ?

Henry Ford said:

" I will build a car for the great multitude.

It will be large enough for the family, but small enough for the individual to run and care for.

It will be constructed of the best materials, by the best men to be hired, after the simplest designs that modern engineering can devise.

But it will be so low in price that no man making a good salary will be unable to own one. "

The common trait that all modern Model T owners share is the desire to simplify life.

Henry struggled with that his entire life.

That was the catalyst for " The Henry Ford " (also known as the Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village, and more formally as the Edison Institute).

" Named for its founder, the automobile industrialist Henry Ford, and based on his efforts to preserve items of historical interest and portray the Industrial Revolution, the property houses homes, machinery, exhibits, and Americana of historically significant items as well as common memorabilia, both of which help to capture the history of life in early America.

Henry Ford said of his museum:

" I am collecting the history of our people as written into things their hands made and used....

When we are through, we shall have reproduced American life as lived, and that, I think, is the best way of preserving at least a part of our history and tradition...[6] "


So - we have " evolved " to the point that potential participants who own their own vehicles have to PAY a non-refundable application fee
for " consideration " of inclusion into a Meet & Greet with the Public ?

That fee combined with the cost to travel to & from the Event and obtain lodging is proving to be a financial hardship for many past participants.

I think folks at the Henry Ford have forgotten their mission statement.

I think they need to be reminded by Modern Model T Owners.

There are PLENTY of old cars in the Henry Ford Museum.

Perhaps the organizers should take those vehicles out once a year for the Public to experience and ride in.

Here is my point:

The Model T was never intended to be a show car.

It was a common car for the common man.

Don't let any organization - museum - club take that badge of distinction away from the Model T Legacy.

Honor Henry Ford's True Legacy - Simplicity



Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David C Jahnke on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 09:30 pm:

I've been watching this thread, as I'm sure many others have as well. The reality is that the interests of the Henry Ford are very different than the interests of the many collectors of Model T's. And it appears those interests are now diverging radically. It was a great show for many years, but times change, and they obviously want a different kind of show for themselves in the future. It is there right, and complaining about it really isn't going to help. As far as the 50.00 non refundable application, if you are willing to deal with someone making that kind of demand, that is your option. And if not, walk away from the show with great memories of something that exists no more. The Model T did not stay in production forever, and was replaced with something else. Perhaps the Gilmore show is a viable replacement in the future, or perhaps the Model T clubs could work on a replacement show of their own in the future. Maybe the Old Car Festival as we knew it will be like the Ringling Circus or the Harahs Museum. As least it was great while it lasted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 09:45 pm:

I went to my supermarket this evening. There was something new. An employee was at the door collecting $25 from everyone who entered. I asked about it and was told that it was an entry fee. If they didn't have the items on my grocery list, the $25 wouldn't be refunded. Interesting way to do business.

Went to a different supermarket... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Derocher on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 10:47 pm:

Thanks Ed for posting the letter to avoid the confusion. We have gone to several, always enjoyed it. I sure hope folks don't boycott the OCF, specially folks who have never gone to it. Jim Derocher, AuGres,MI


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 11:22 pm:

They are also limiting the wristbands entry to only Saturday and Sunday, NOT on Monday for participants that stayed around another day to visit the museum! I know a number of participants went to the museum on Monday as I had done that a few times. No More!
How do they think the 2 wristbands are a $196 value? It certainly doesn't cost $98 to purchase an adult ticket to the Greenfield Village and Museum for 2 days! Oh, are they adding in a value for that ride "coupon"? As they admit that redemption of these "coupons" are extremely low. I imagine that nearly all the participants either bring a Model T or their other car left at home is a Model T. So, why would the participants want to spend extra money to ride in the Village's Model T when the participants have their own that they can ride in? Hence, no value to those "coupons"!
This is a case of a new management trying to cast their own footprint on this event and it is going to bite them in the ass!

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 12:47 am:

I perhaps think that Cvent may have some to do with this. Turn things over to another company and things will change a bit. I could be very wrong.
Never been to OCF nor the MM. Too busy.

With that said; My take:
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when they opened the letter/email containing the required photos of my Crappy T along with the $50 they require for potential inclusion.
They open my letter and almost immediately throw up at the sight of my reliable/almost indestructible little Ford. Hehehehe! Can you imagine?

Sorry about that gang but I have been wanting to say it for days. I MAY be way off base.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 04:57 am:

Dick Lodge, my sentiments exactly!!!! Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 05:31 am:

Actually, a non-refundable application fee is completely normal when applying for an entry visa for a foreign country. :-)

It's obviously a measure designed to reduce the size of the event.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gary hammond on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 05:43 am:

TV product sales mentality...a $196.00 value!!! Fact is, you are all DEPLORABLES, tolerated but really wanting the blue-collar types OUT. Read that letter, substitute NON-STICK PAN for auto-related words. No difference. This show is a management problem, not a gathering of like-minded owners and viewers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Crane on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 07:16 am:

Hey, They will survive.

Remember in the 70's when they sold off a lot number of Edison Memorabilia under some questionable dealings. My recollection is that the police investigated etc
.
Then there were the deassension auctions of the surplus collection items...I still have the 1928 roadster pickup sold in that debacle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 08:57 am:

Motor Muster theme Pontiac Firebird???????????? If you have a true antique you may be rejected because there may be to many others? You have got to be kidding. I haven't gone in a while and planned to go this year, guess not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Mc Willie on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 10:29 am:

Is Randy Mason still involved with Old Car Festival? Last time I talked to him, he was also actively involved with the Piquette restoration. I haven't seen his name mentioned in a few years. Is he still active in the old car hobby?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 10:53 am:

There you go. I would rather donate my $50 application fee to the Piquette Plant restoration than give it to these jokers running the OCF! It would truly help with the restoration process if all the participants who plan on skipping this year's OCF and donate their $50 to the Piquette Plant. I'm in, anyone else care to? A chance to do something really good and worthwhile!

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 10:58 am:

I'll gladly donate to the Piquette Plant. You know that your money is going to be put to good use there, instead of paying some management company.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 11:27 am:

I realize this is a Model T forum, but this turn of events also affects owners of other makes. Does anyone know how the other multi-make and single-make clubs are reacting?

My point is, do we all band together and sign a petition asking for a meeting of owner/representatives with John Neilson and Sara Gaynier? Rhetorical question, but have they seen this or other clubs threads? Do they have any idea what they have created/started? Do we take the above action and make the owners feelings known? And how do we start some sort of petition electronically?

It's one thing to voice our concerns to each other, but the powers that be need to made aware of the concerns -- and soon.

I'm willing to spearhead this effort but I need assistance.

Anyone else willing?

Ron McWillie: Randy has not been involved since his retirement as Curator many years ago. He is not in the best of health and is in an assisted living home.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 11:29 am:

Ron Heyen: They have eliminated the Lansing to Dearborn run from the OCF.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Mc Willie on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 11:54 am:

Maybe the Piquette Museum could start their own show/tour during OCF weekend? At 20.00 bucks a car and 5.00 for admission, they could probably raise some much needed money. This could also provide a venue for the numerous OCF-rejected cars and their owners. I think a lot of spectators that are already in town for OCF would attend both events since they are relatively close by. Sometimes having multiple events happening simultaneously can become a win-win for all involved. Just a thought...

Marty- Thank you for the update on Randy Mason. I am sorry to here of his health issues.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 12:18 pm:

Trying to call before 1/24 2017 will not help as no one is there until 1/24/2017!Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 12:39 pm:

Marty, In your post above you ask if we should all band together and ask for a meeting, etc.

I suggest starting another thread on this Forum specifically to be an online petition for this request. Those of us who agree can sign onto the petition by simply posting on that thread "I agree, signed by____________ (their name)

Simple and easy to do. This could be repeated on other Forums, like AACA, HCCA, etc. The hard part is getting them to come to a meeting and listen. They seem very bull-headed and might not be willing to meet and discuss this, but it is certainly worth a try. You've got my support.

Thanks, Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Kelly on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 12:47 pm:

Marty:

While I appreciate your concern about the unfortunate turn of events with respect to the OCF, I suspect that even if a great many Model T Ford owners signed a petition expressing their concerns it wouldn't have much if any effect on those at OFC that have implemented the changes. I base this conclusion on the fact that it is my understanding that OCF organizers are looking to limit the large volume of Model T's that have participated in the past. So, in their minds, if they have alienated the Model T crowd, there's no loss. In fact the opposite is true, they have achieved one of their objectives.

I think for old car collectors to have an impact with respect to this matter, collectors of many different makes and models, especially those that they are seeking (whatever they may be) need to speak with a united voice.

I've spoken with Rob and we'll be on the lookout for an alternative venue with which to play with our Model K's and other letter series Fords that weekend. I suspect that it won't be too hard to find one.

Expressing our frustration by not applying nor participating will have a much greater impact that sending cards and letter. However, to really be effective, a great many former participants as well as prospective participants will need to take the same action.

Also, my guess is that the OCF will not be pocketing much of the $50 application fee. Rather it will likely end up in the pockets of Cevent, the entity responsible for managing the registration process.

Time will tell......

Timothy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 01:02 pm:

Since sending in your 50 bucks is taking a gamble, maybe we can protest that it falls under the restrictions of Michigan's gambling laws ;<)

Last year, for $25, you got 4 bands and your car's admission to the Festival; this year, to get the same thing, it will cost you $90. A 360% increase.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood -Long Beach, California on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 01:07 pm:

Somebody new is running the show and they have decided that people are not paying their "fair share" for the entertainment they will receive.

Several years ago, a Disney employee explained their admission prices to me. He explained that people are willing to spend a certain dollar amount per hour for entertainment, and used the movies as an example. Current Disneyland admission ranges from $95 to $120 for a single day. Current movie tickets are $15. So, if you spend $15 for an hour and a half to two hour movie, you are willing to spend $8 to $10 per hour. You will most likely stay in the theme park for at least 12 hours, so admission is $95 to $120.

They also have it figured so that you will come back again and spend more money. If you have ever been, then you have noticed that some rides will shut down in the evening. Most noticeable is the Matterhorn Bobsled ride. During the day, both sides of the mountain are running, but at night, only one side is open. This is due to their formula to make you come back. They have surveyed people, and found that if you are able to go on as many rides as you want to, you will be very happy, but not likely to return since you got to do all that you wanted to do. However, if you only got to go on maybe 3 or 4 rides, you will not be happy at all, and are not likely to return either. If you were able to go on 6 or 7 rides, you will be satisfied enough that you will return and pay another $120 to go on the rides that you were not able to ride on your first visit.

So, in the eyes of the new operators, $196 is a bargain for two days entertainment!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 01:37 pm:

The first time I went to Disneyland I paid $2.50 for an 8-ticket book (three A tickets, two B, and three C). You could buy additional tickets inside the park for 10, 20, and 30.



Sorry for the drift, but when you get old everything reminds you of something else.
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 01:48 pm:

How very generous of them to extend to us a $196 value, and even boast of it, at our cost of $50 + perhaps hundreds, maybe even $1000, to prep our cars, travel there, and procure lodging.

(I admit, for me it probably is a value as I'm 30 minutes away. But most do travel great distances and spend lots of $$ to do OCF)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Kramer on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 01:50 pm:

R.V. Last year we got free admission to the museum on Monday. That is gone also. Those of us that would camp there will need to add in a camping fee or motel. Many of the cars are not suitable to be driven on public roads at night to get back to your hotel. I'm sure they will provide shuttle service. How long before they take away the ability to drive around the village during the show. I can see that coming.

I hope for those that continue and for those that take our place that the festival atmosphere continues.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 02:50 pm:

Jerry, I'm willing to be that driving around the grounds this year will be verbotten--new event managers, many limitations to limit liability.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 03:41 pm:

I do not think a petition will do much good since the decision has been made already. I think a win-win method would be to take your admission form and enclose an additional letter stating that you are sorry but due to the changes this year you will not be attending. You do not need to say more than that. Be polite and politely decline to take part. That might be the best way to get their notice. Enuf said on my part.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 03:58 pm:

Dave,

That's the strategy I've been considering. Just hate to be missing it. But then, what will I be missing, it's already gone. How sad. Been going all my life.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 04:16 pm:

For those of you who are planning to stay in a motorhome or camper during OCF, you might want to take a look at how far the nearest campground is to The Henry Ford.

Respectfully suggested,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barry Cogan on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 04:24 pm:

Marty wondered how owners of other car makes are reacting. I am involved with the Dodge Brothers Club and we have grown the participation of DB cars at OCF to average around 20 during the past several years. When I got the letter yesterday, I contacted several DB friends who have been coming for years and all five said they are finished with OCF.

On another note, someone suggested donating the $50 fee to Piquette. I am also involved there and we could certainly use the money. We are currently in the middle of a huge fundraising campaign to match a donation to repair the roof. Water damage is our worst nemesis. We have several exciting projects in the works at the plant that I guarantee will make everyone on this forum want to come to or return to Piquette!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 04:35 pm:

It's the people and the friendships we have made over the years that i will miss most!! It's the delight in the eyes of a family when you put them in your car and take pictures for them.It's the fun of picking up hitch hikers and taking them to play car games and ride with you in the gaslight parade!!! On and on it is a sad day for the Henry Ford and all those who expect it to be fun! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman Bolz on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 04:44 pm:

And if you are rejected or they are full you don't
even get admission. You can still get in for the
regular price. Have the people in charge ever even
been to OCF? I get the feeling they show up late
and go home early.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Crane on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 04:54 pm:

The Henry Ford wants authenticity and are requiring pictures of the car from all four car sides. Authenticity is half the cars in the world were Model T's. Half the cars on the streets during the ocf should be T's. Has anyone checked the cemetery. Henry is rolling over in his grave.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 05:11 pm:

It is time for them to bring everything back in check. The only way that will happen is with us, as a band of old car brothers, opt out this year! It kills me as well not to go but, this is the sure way to do it. Perhaps, then THF will take back control of the OCF?

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 07:16 pm:

If someone gets rejected and loses their $50.00, do they think that person is going to spend more money to correct the car and then another $50.00 to try again next year? I guess we can still call it "The Old Car Festival" meaning former car festival.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 07:36 pm:

No David. They expect us to stay away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 07:45 pm:

FWIW here's my thought, albeit pure speculation. Since it sounds like "no one" is going to apply..lets see if everyone "holds their money where their mouth is", then the OCF will effectively implode by the end of June, whence they usually are flooded with apps. By the end of July, when maybe only 25 apps come in and they realize they can't even afford to pay the light bill for said occasion, my guess is there'll be a FRANTIC letter going out by Aug. 1st. pulling back on all the new rules and welcoming everyone with open arms. Who knows.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 08:15 pm:

I think Dave hit the best answer above when he recommended that folks simply return the entry form along with a note saying that due to changes in the requirements they are choosing not to attend. It's easy, isn't rude or disrespectful (my opinion) but still lets them know that you had at least thought of attending but have changed your mind based on the new rules. Of course you may not be invited again in '18 but if the game doesn't improve you haven't lost anything. I have no real skin in this game as I'm too far away to justify attendance but I still hate to see what has been a great event take a bad turn for the hobby.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Kramer on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 08:40 pm:

Tim, Unfortunately there will be many non Ford people that will see this as a good opportunity for their car to shine. Lost on the powers to be is the fact that this venue was built on the backs of Model Ts and Model As., and it seams they are the ones they want to get rid of the most.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 09:05 pm:

Jerry,

Last OCF I brought a 2 door Buick. The only model that was there and I am opting out this year. The new management has shot themselves in the foot with these absurd changes!

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 09:18 pm:

If I were among the folks invited to apply (I'm not) I would be inclined to take a pass and, as Walt suggests, return the form with a brief note declining the honor and explaining why. But I would expect that not enough people would do that to have an impact. Most of those eligible do not follow this forum, and I suspect most are unaware that there's any "movement" to not participate. In fact, the demographics of the old car crowd, based on people I know, are such that many, if not most, are computer-averse and will remain unaware. Yes, I would pass. But I wouldn't expect enough company in that to prompt a reversal of these poor decisions. I hope I'm wrong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 10:50 pm:

Steve,

You don't have to be on this or any other forum to be ticked about this change. I think lots of folks will come to the same conclusions on their own.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 02:55 am:

Well, I hope there's a good turnout despite all of the sour grapes on this thread. I've been dreaming of attending the OCF for several years and this IS the year that I can go. So, I will be there. I'm looking forward to experiencing Greenfield Village and the Henry Ford Museum. If there's still a decent car show on the grounds that weekend, it will enhance my enjoyment of the event.

I understand the disappointment that many of you are feeling as a result of the changes. It's hard to accept the loss or perceived loss of features that you enjoy at an event. Times do change and the organizers appear to be trying to adapt to the current "lay of the land." They have premier event that's drawing more participants and spectators that they can adequately accommodate.

The most problematic thing that I see in the letter posted here, is the fact that the application fee is non-refundable. But, a glass half-full approach to that might be that it will discourage applicants who's cars don't meet the criteria from taking space away from cars that do. The letter does make it clear that both restored and unrestored cars are desired, so that shouldn't be a deterrent to applying.

I'm happy to see that applications will be open to the public on June first. Earlier speculation was that the whole event would only be open to prior participants.

In conclusion, I hope that the good folks of this forum will look at the changes objectively, before making the final decision on whether to boycott the OCF this fall. Let's be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 07:38 am:

Sour Grapes Indeed!! The glass half full?? Discourage cars don't meet the criteria?? We have been there close to 20 years in a row and i think everyone got the letter?? I have no trouble with the price increase but it used to be free then send no money until you were approved!!! While i'm quite sure we would be approved why send money until?? In conclusion i hope these in charge do not spoil a good thing!! If it sounds good to you,send your money!!!!!!!! Bud DeLong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Seelman on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 08:24 am:

Geez guys. For what I am interested in doing, Village and Museum, you are talking and additional $65.(additional $25 entry plus $40 for additional wrist bands that you may not need)

I'll spend more in gas to get there.

Dinner and a movie with the wife is more than that.

Many of you guys have been there year after year so i'm not quite sure what the angst is regarding your car being accepted.

Non-refundable application fee sucks but it's the way many places operate.

So, from my point of view, go ahead and opt out in 2017....more room for me....sorry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 08:25 am:

Having never attended OCF as a spectator or entrant, and only having had the "affliction" since 2012, I've followed threads and posts here on the forum regarding the OCF for a few years now. I had thought in the past about possibly applying for entry, but being in the Speedster crowd (the only T I have), it has seemed unlikely that my application would have been accepted in previous years. Reading the letter above, it certainly doesn't appear that my chances of having my application accepted if I were to apply have improved; quite the contrary, it seems likely it would be laughed at by the selection committee that makes those decisions. Plus, I'm guaranteed to be out my $50 application fee.

So, for me, I'll continue to be a non-participant in OCF. Neither a spectator nor entrant will I be. I agree with many posts here regarding the apparent need of the OCF organizers to charge the exhibitors to exhibit their cars, without which there would be no event at all. I'll continue to attend local shows and events where I enjoy the opportunity to let folks see and experience my car up close, and even pay the occasional $10 entry fee that I know goes to good causes and not in peoples pockets.

I'll continue to look forward to meeting the folks who post here on the forum, either at the Homecoming event in Richmond (which I'll be attending again this year), or somewhere else down the road. But it won't be at the OCF. Just my opinion, of course.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 08:44 am:

Jerry K., that's really sad, isn't it. Sigh. I'll keep my letter on the "Model T table" just in case. But basically I guess I'll die just being a "one-timer". Thank goodness for Homecoming and the Jamboree.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Seelman on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 08:47 am:

Hey Dave, if your speedster is lime green with pink....then you are in

Speedsters have a lot of leeway


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 09:01 am:

If you want the next generation to embrace the Model T passion - to continue the tradition - to honor the legacy ....

You will find them in the common folk.

They don't pay $20 to look at cars.

They are busy earning a daily wage - just like most of you did before you retired.

Keep it simple.


Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 09:16 am:

Our Fore Fathers had the sense to say enough is enough over the tax on tea without representation. If not, we'd all be under the King's rule today! There were people then who wanted to stay under the King's rule. Thank goodness we had people who stood up for what was right!
Of course a big difference here, but non-refundable? Outrageous! I, of course, would not be unapproved (as I bring a non T to the table). I am standing up for what is right and non-refundable is NOT right! I would rather send my $50 to the Piquette Plant. Hell, I'll even donate the extra 2 wristbands ($40) to the Piquette Plant. In fact, I will make it an even $100 donation to them. A worthwhile cause!

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Stauffer on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 10:26 am:

I'm with Tim on this one. If the consensus is to send a respectful letter to OCF and a $100 donation to the Piquette Plant, the Stroh's beer truck will be seen elsewhere and a few less drops of rain will fall on the floor of a most treasured facility to be preserved. I'll keep watching to see how others respond.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 11:54 am:

I am relatively new to the T scene. Never been to THF or OCF. But
I am bright enough to spot a turd before I step in it.

Greenfield Village sounds like a place I'd like to load up the TT and
LIVE ! A trip back into all the old photos posted on this forum. And it
sounds ot me that this is exactly why the OCF became what it has been,
and conversely, why changes to the organization are going to turn what
has been into something completely different .... at least in the spirit of
what many have come to enjoy most about the event.

All this banter about sour grapes and "I'm going anyway" is missing the
point and muddying the waters of discussion. Something is afoot and
whatever is in the wind with management is not being presented forthright,
but rather in an underhanded, obfuscating way. I am reminded of companies
that are gutted from within, all the while hard-to-swallow excuses are given
for actions taken, until the whole show implodes. When the dust clears,
it becomes obvious what the internal plan was all along, but by then it is
too late and the henhouse is raided of all it's cluckers.

Those that keep on going can enjoy what is left of the experience each
year, but I suspect that in 10 years, if plans stay on track, that experience
will resemble nothing familiar to to those who have attended for the past
30 years.

It sure would be nice if this wasn't being played as a shell game.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 12:49 pm:

Burger,
I agree with much of what you're saying here. Believe me, I'm not asking people to ignore their concerns about changes to an event that they revere. But, as a servant on many hobby organization boards over the years, including a current tenure on the board of directors for the New London to New Brighton Antique Car Run, I've learned that change comes to events and boards have to make tough decisions at times. Any decision to address a problem risks upsetting stakeholders.

I work at a hospital and I only get the opportunity for one guaranteed weeklong vacation per year. I have to request my week in October of the prior year. This year, my wife asked me to take her on the Lansing to Dearborn Run and to the OCF as we celebrate our 10th wedding anniversary. This will be my first trip to Greenfield Village and it's likely my only chance to make this trip in the next five years. The die is cast, I'm going. I am saddened that there's a cloud of controversy on this of all years. But, I'm going to make the best of it.

I hope that the changes to the OCF, don't cause a chain reaction that ruins a legendary event. Policy changes to long standing events are either embraced, tolerated, repealed, or steps down a slope to disaster. How we react, determines the future of the OCF. I assure you, that our response, not the initial actions of the current board, is what will determine the future of the OCF.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 02:25 pm:

Eric,

I have no dog in the fight. I would love to go see what others have
described here. Sounds like by the time I am ready, it will be just
another car show full of Mustangs and Cameros. Money always
overrules.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 03:29 pm:

Eric,

My understanding is that the Lansing to Dearborn Run has been deleted from this year's event. May want to confirm that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 03:54 pm:

Jerry, I will look into it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 04:11 pm:

With the forecast for a huge crop of grapes has anyone looked into making wine?? Bud. PS,That's a joke!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 06:19 pm:

In a previous comment on this thread, I mentioned that the Lansing to Dearborn run has been eliminated from the OCF. That's not to say the run has been cancelled, just it's inclusion in the OCF.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 06:28 pm:

I find it ironic that when you go the The Henry Ford homepage, the head line is, "Prepare to be astounded"!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 07:15 pm:

I'm astounded!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 07:25 pm:

Marty - So,....if you DON'T "prepare to be astounded", do you end up becoming even way more astoundeder than if you didn't prepare? (:^)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 08:05 pm:

I saw a guy eat his own stool once ....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gitts - Ferndale, WA on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 08:31 pm:

The OCF is an event I've wanted to attend for several years. Two things I find unfortunate about the changes.

#1- non-refundable application fee. Doesn't matter how much, it just doesn't make sense. I get charging the fee if you're accepted, but it's really not hard to set up an escrow type account to take all application monies and refund back to those who are not accepted. I'm not an accountant, but I have done that for several shows and a major tour. It's a simple thing to do.

#2- I fully understand the "invitation only", but don't understand the thought process of only inviting the same vehicles which were shown previously. To me it makes better sense to encourage previously un-shown examples otherwise if there's no change in exhibits, what's the motivation for visitors to continually return. This for me is the disappointing part, as it's a great event which most likely, I'll never get to participate in. I would love to be able to bring a model T towncar, or my 1906 Queen touring (unrestored), but as it is now probably won't get the chance to.
Hopefully down the road, things may change.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 08:54 am:

Sounds like a petition is not something we want to do. Let's see what happens.

I'm not sure about "taking your admission form and enclosing a letter explaining why you are not going" because all applications are done electronically. I think the only letter you would receive is an acceptance letter and by then, you would have spent your $50.

There has been some mention of these changes a precursor to bigger changes. I think I mentioned earlier in the thread that that is very probably the case. Perhaps they want change it into another concours? Perhaps they don't even know what they want?


Harold,very good! I think you just added a new word to the English language -- at least I think that's English!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 08:59 am:

Burger...EEWWWW!!

Marty...is it time for "OCF changes, part tres"?? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Thomas on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 09:07 am:

I have never been to the OCF or any other car event west of Watkins Glenn NY. However, this thread has led me to discover the Piquette museum, and I plan to go there as soon as I can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 09:25 am:

Erik,

One of the best museums I have been to - Glenn Curtis Museum in Hammondsport, NY - is right in your backyard.

That is also a great town to visit.

He was right up there with Edison & Westinghouse as an inventor - he made the first naval airplane contract sale - held the motorcycle land speed record for many years.

What a man !


Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 09:28 am:

The "Donate" button on the Piquette website doesn't appear to be working.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 09:54 am:

Erik..Piquette is fantastic. I plan to go again, and this time spend a lot more time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 11:38 am:

Ed,

I encountered that a year ago and I called them about it. I can't recall what the problem was but, was told I could send in a check, which I did. I plan on just sending them a check for $100 next month. I want to help preserve the plant and since I am to far away to help with the labor, this is probably better anyway.

Cheers,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 12:29 pm:

Jerry,
I have communicated with one of the organizers of the Lansing to Dearborn Run and learned the the two events are no longer linked. The Lansing to Dearborn Run will continue, but the Henry Ford is no longer supporting or accommodating it.

Perhaps, I've been looking at the whole situation with rose colored glasses. For the last several years, I've envied my friends who participated in the LDR and OCF as welcomed guests. I dreamed of going them, but didn't think that my life situation would allow it for at least five years. But, my wife pulled in some favors, allowing us to get away that week. Sadly, it appears that we're a year too late.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 12:30 pm:

There is a contact number in the letter so maybe after the 1/24/2017 date we might be able to talk to someone?? I would think with the exclusion of motor home parking i would guess that would put off many?? As Trent mentioned the only close campground is at least 25 miles but it's off 94 and back roads might be hard to find?? Myself i have no gripe about the price but i can not get by the send your non refundable money and take your chances!!!!! I smell a RAT and probably several more!!!!! Facts we need to know,will there be car games? Will there be driving in the Village,Will there be a Gas Lite parade???? Instead of backing off,do we need a push?? What is the problem with a on line petition?? If results of said petition warrant what about a Certified letter of our thoughts/questions/findings send to who is in charge of this mess?? If we are to bitch i think we should do it before some CLOWN wrecks the OCF as we know it?? Bud DeLong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Nikolajevs Dearborn, MI on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 05:35 pm:

Ed, and others who may wish to donate to Piquette, the donate link on the "Raise the Roof" page is working. http://www.fordpiquetteavenueplant.org/?page_id=2602 or click on the "Raise the Roof" link at the top of the Piquette site home page.

I have a vested interest in fixing the roof, since right below it is my 1911 touring (yes, it's the wrong color and therefore I will not spend my $50 on trying to apply to OCF). :-)

In the picture are also my two children, in the red scarf and green shirt. They would also be appreciative of your donation to help preserve the plant for future generations.

Thank you for your consideration.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 05:41 pm:

Petition or not, I think it's time to open a line of communication with the powers that be about this. I am getting phone calls and emails about this, most of whom are telling me they plan to no longer attend and asking me questions I cannot answer. So, come Monday, I think I will at least call Sara Gaynier to see if I can get some questions answered AND let it be known how these changes are effecting the car owners and, possibly, the OCF (and Motor Muster). I'm not so sure the planners are aware of the hue and cry going up about this. Maybe from a phone call we can initiate a discussion. I doubt very much if a call or a meeting or a discussion will change anything but perhaps we can at least know the reasons why.

If there is anything you want asked, other than the obvious and within reason, let me know.

Also, for those of you in other single or multi-make clubs, please find out their feelings on this and let me know. It will help in the discussions.

I need to know all of the above before Monday.

Also, I Googled Cvent, the company through which we have to register. They provide an on-line registration service AND event management!! I do not think they are managing either event, although I have no basis for that belief.

Eric Hylen: I believe I mentioned in a previous thread that the Lansing to Dearborn run has been "uninvited" to OCF.

Kenneth: I think the number at the bottom of page three is Kristi Best's number and she is NOT the one to talk to about this. She's just an innocent bystander who works very hard to help organize the event. She is not, to the best of my knowledge, a decision maker. Please, don't call her about this.

Tim: after Monday's phone call, it may be time for Part Three!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 05:53 pm:

I think it is time for part III already.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 07:23 pm:

:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Crane on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 08:06 pm:

Marty
Is it true that the OCF is going to pay appearance money for certain cars and personnel?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Trzcinski on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 10:44 pm:

Marty, I am not a Model T owner, my neighbor is. My father is a old car owner though and and we been attending the OCF and MM both for 34 years. We have a 1912 Overland, a 1922 Studebaker, a 1937 Ford, and a 1951 Kaiser Dragon. I just wanted to let all of you its not just the Ford people who are upset about the changes to the OCF. When my father received the letter and seen all the changes, including this non refundable $50 entrance fee (per car) he said we are not going. We also have some friends with other makes of cars who have said the same thing. It breaks my heart and his too because we have been going to the OCF and later the MM most of my life, and we looked forward to both shows each year.

My father and I both said its a ton of work for both us to go to both of these shows (which we gladly did), as we take two cars to both. Now they want to double the entrance fee for the first car, and charge us ten times the amount for the additional car. As before the entrance fee for both cars we took to each show would cost $30, now it will be $100 for two cars because of this $50 per car thing. Also now they want to charge us $20 per person for each person we bring with us over the first two? Our question what if a car owner has kids? He has pay $20 per kid on top of the $50? Thats just not right. I mean us car owners are nice enough to do all the work cleaning our cars up, the gas for the vehicles, gas for the tow vehicle (if one is needed), maintenance,and insurance. I dont know if The Henry Ford realizes how much work, time, and money goes in to everyone bringing a car there just so they have a nice show for their guest. I hate to sound mean here but on the OCF and MM weekend they get hundreds if not thousands more guest than they would on these given weekends if there was NOT a car show there. The cars are a huge draw for them! Then we all know when people attend a event like this they spend money on food, souvenirs, train rides and other things while there for the day. Its really not fair that they are almost like penalizing the car people with these high fees. Then we also do not like this NON refundable fee. I mean what were to happen for instance say they dont like the color of your car or some other reason? You do not get your money back if they refuse you? Sorry but I dont think that is fair at all.

Also on the no camping thing, we feel for everyone on that one too. We live close enough that we can commute from home to the show each day (which we do every year), but not everyone can. We see a lot of out of state plates on motor homes in the parking lot on those weekends. The person that mentioned there are not many campgrounds close by is right, there isnt! I dont know what a person would do if coming from out of state and they had to resort on staying at a campground 20 plus miles down the road and their only way to get to the OCF each day was a vintage car. We do not blame anyone who would be against driving it the OCF from a campground in Detroit traffic.

So in closing here we are not Model T owners but just wanted to let everyone know you are NOT alone on your dissatisfaction with the The Henry Ford on these new changes for both these events. If things do not change we will not be attending either as well. If its alright I will be following this here to see how this all shakes down. We too hope that the powers that be will listen to all of us and do something about these ridiculous changes.

MIKE


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 11:08 pm:

I just got word from the officials saying that applicants whose cars are denied
will not be given a $50 refund, but will be issued a pair of shoes with handles
on them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 08:27 am:

Stitch Nazis, now let me explain.

Building flintlocks I have a fairly decent background going to pirate events in the south east. One local event was ranked the best event at any state park. It was common to have people travel cross country to attend. That was about 10 years ago, this year it was cancelled. Over the past 15-20 years the event grew to the point where there were thousands of spectators and dwindled to where there were maybe 100. Looking at the event itself from a participant it "improved" each year. Hearing about the management it was a constant fight between everybody. And as a spectator the event degraded every year. Those running the event in an attempt to make things more correct turned off the average person (stitch nazi refers to someone that would check clothes to make sure they had been hand sewn using correct materials and patterns without a machine). As a comparison the average person would be a model T owner. As a result they attracted a new type of person which would be those owning trailer queens. As a result it became less "fun" for the public to observe and participate in while becoming more enjoyable for those "trailer queens"

At this pirate event as the crowds reduced on site camping was cancelled for those travelling distances as well as entry fees being required.

The real questions on should be asking about the OCF is how is the public going to react? Most likely there will be no change in which case it doesnt matter what is done as far as a petition or letters. Remember the past, the event has begun its change. Most likely it will never die and will never be again what in the future will be refered to as "the golden age"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 09:38 am:

Jon: I have not heard that there will be payment for certain cars or personnel. I highly doubt it and hope that rumor is not true. Rumors like that are another reason we need to open a dialogue with THF.

Michael: I agree with all you said. I suspected that non-Ford collectors would be just as upset as the Ford collectors but I need proof so I can pass this on to THF, if they don't already know. It seems there are similar feelings on the AACA forum. But, again, I AM NOT ADVOCATING A BOYCOTT. I am already getting word back from THF that I am "really stirring the pot", but I didn't create the new "rules." I have not missed an OCF in 54 years (of course, I was an infant that first year!!) even cutting short a trip to Italy to make it back for an OCF. My four kids have been going since they were infants and they, too, are upset by this. You also ask some very good questions.

I'd still like to hear from other single make and multi-make groups.

Chadwick: it my hope, and I'm sure that of many others, that the OCF does not turn into another concours. As I said in previous comments, the OCF and MM are a great mix of "trailer queens" and the average persons car. But I believe that the average persons car makes up the core of the events.

Has anyone talked to anyone at THF about this? I still plan to call Monday.

Part III to start then?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 02:38 pm:

How ever it turns out i say Thank You Marty for the effort!!!! Ps,Buds dictionary defines the term [trailer queen] as a attempt of the have not's to make themselves look better!! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 03:27 pm:

Here is your message to The Henry Ford Museum posted by someone who took the time to regster on the forum & make their first post:

" Marty, I am not a Model T owner, my neighbor is. My father is a old car owner though and and we been attending the OCF and MM both for 34 years. We have a 1912 Overland, a 1922 Studebaker, a 1937 Ford, and a 1951 Kaiser Dragon. I just wanted to let all of you its not just the Ford people who are upset about the changes to the OCF. When my father received the letter and seen all the changes, including this non refundable $50 entrance fee (per car) he said we are not going. We also have some friends with other makes of cars who have said the same thing. It breaks my heart and his too because we have been going to the OCF and later the MM most of my life, and we looked forward to both shows each year.

My father and I both said its a ton of work for both us to go to both of these shows (which we gladly did), as we take two cars to both. Now they want to double the entrance fee for the first car, and charge us ten times the amount for the additional car. As before the entrance fee for both cars we took to each show would cost $30, now it will be $100 for two cars because of this $50 per car thing. Also now they want to charge us $20 per person for each person we bring with us over the first two? Our question what if a car owner has kids? He has pay $20 per kid on top of the $50? Thats just not right. I mean us car owners are nice enough to do all the work cleaning our cars up, the gas for the vehicles, gas for the tow vehicle (if one is needed), maintenance,and insurance. I dont know if The Henry Ford realizes how much work, time, and money goes in to everyone bringing a car there just so they have a nice show for their guest. I hate to sound mean here but on the OCF and MM weekend they get hundreds if not thousands more guest than they would on these given weekends if there was NOT a car show there. The cars are a huge draw for them! Then we all know when people attend a event like this they spend money on food, souvenirs, train rides and other things while there for the day. Its really not fair that they are almost like penalizing the car people with these high fees. Then we also do not like this NON refundable fee. I mean what were to happen for instance say they dont like the color of your car or some other reason? You do not get your money back if they refuse you? Sorry but I dont think that is fair at all.

Also on the no camping thing, we feel for everyone on that one too. We live close enough that we can commute from home to the show each day (which we do every year), but not everyone can. We see a lot of out of state plates on motor homes in the parking lot on those weekends. The person that mentioned there are not many campgrounds close by is right, there isnt! I dont know what a person would do if coming from out of state and they had to resort on staying at a campground 20 plus miles down the road and their only way to get to the OCF each day was a vintage car. We do not blame anyone who would be against driving it the OCF from a campground in Detroit traffic.

So in closing here we are not Model T owners but just wanted to let everyone know you are NOT alone on your dissatisfaction with the The Henry Ford on these new changes for both these events. If things do not change we will not be attending either as well. If its alright I will be following this here to see how this all shakes down. We too hope that the powers that be will listen to all of us and do something about these ridiculous changes.

MIKE "


Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Trzcinski on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 05:25 pm:

Marty, What proof do you need from us? We would be glad to help out in any way we can. I can tell you, as of right now if all these changes to the OCF and MM stick we will not be attending

MIKE


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 08:35 pm:

The same as Mike and Bud said, if all these changes stick, we won't be going.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 08:49 pm:

Just thinking out louwd here, but what if you made the application and paid the fee via credit card. Then, if you were denied, dispute the credit card transacton? After all, they never provided anything for the money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 09:35 pm:

They WILL provide something, an application, which is all they ever offered to sell in the first place and you know that going into it. Not honest to do as you ponder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 11:59 am:

Michael, What I'm looking for are the feelings/opinions of other car clubs. I get a sense that some those without Model Ts are not attending the event. I guess when I make the call, I'd like to be able to tell them that it isn't just the T folks who are upset/unhappy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 12:20 pm:

I think it's a safe assumption that others are upset as well. We T guys are weirdos, but not sooo much more weird than other car guys. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 12:38 pm:

OCF and MM starting part 3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 01:14 pm:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/717141.html?1485194374


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