Pan straightening jig. repurposed as an anvil.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Pan straightening jig. repurposed as an anvil.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Blake, Kansas City on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 05:59 pm:

From the classifieds and eBay. I know of one in similar but possibly slightly better shape. Can they be reconditioned for use with T pans again?

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/3487/715437.html?1484776662


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 07:13 pm:

Gary, I am in the middle of refurbishing one that was gave to me in about the same shape. If the 10 locating holes in the top are still there, it should be no problem. But, I have found out the top is basically un-weldable. I have had the pleasure of a few things in my 30 year career of welding being un-weldable . It is usually because the iron is such a poor quality and has to much sulphur, or carbon, or just anything that was in the melt. This pan anvil I have has two of the locating pin holes broken out as a chip in the top. I was going to weld them up and re drill them. But there is no way I can weld this steel. I can smell the sulphur as I grind and try to weld. You can even see the grain of the metal is strange looking when I grind it clean. I was using Eutectic 680 welding rods. They are the "miracle rod" we used in the Nuclear power houses for "problem steel" If they will not weld it, probably nothing will. The pan jig is made of two different metals. The top aprox 3/16 to 1/4 inch of the anvil surface is hardened steel. (a file will not file it). The rest of the anvil is "soft" cast steel. It needs to be soft to keep from breaking the anvil as you beat on it. The soft steel "absorbs" the impact of the hammer blows. That is the part that appears to be high sulphur. On my pan anvil I will have to counter bore the two broken holes out to give me a flat surface for two "special" pins to sit. The other 8 pins are OK. All of my pins were cut off flush with the top of the anvil. 6 of the pin holes are bored all the way thru the anvil. They can be knocked out fairly easily with a drift punch. The other 4 are in "blind holes. I removed them in the same manner you remove the pins in a Model T rear axle differential. I first had to anneal them with a torch by heating them up a couple times till the head was red. Then let totally cool off overnight. Then I could drill a hole in them for a 1/4 inch tap. I then tapped them for a 1/4 inch bolt. By placing a nut over the broken pin with a hole big enough for the pin to be pulled up into, I could use the 1/4 inch bolt and a washer as a "puller" to remove the 4 blind hole pins. A person can hand finish the top without sending to a machine shop. I will use a 10 inch side grinder with a new rock on it. First take the grinder and rock and lay it on top of the anvil. Using the grinding rock as a "polishing" stone, and keeping it flat on top of the anvil, it is possible to get a good flat surface. Do not let the grinding rock, bounce, or tilt, and try to keep even pressure at all times while running. After a quick polish, to make sure it is smooth, you need to level the top with a machinest level. Do not use a carpenter level. By using the level in both directions and shimming the legs, you may if you are lucky have a flat top and be able to level it in all directions. If it will not level in all directions the top is twisted. By leveling it crosswise at one end and leveling it lengthway, it will show you the "high side" of the twist as you try to level the side to side of the opposite end.. It is possible in a hour or so of messing with it. To get the top to within .002 of an inch. Plenty close enough for a pan jig. I have measurements of all the fixtures if someone needs them ... Ill try to post a few pics of what Im talking about later...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 07:47 pm:

Here are pics of the fixtures. I took good measurements of all these parts the day I took these pics. They are on a good working pan jig one of our local club members owns.

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Here are pics of my project, showing removal of the pins and failed welds... If you look close at the shiny ground area, you can see the "porosity" to the metal. It has a strange "grainy" look to the metal. and it does not grind away. When welding, It just bubbles, and boils, with lots of black smoke and strong smell of sulphur. After my first attempt failed. I regrouped and went by the "book" everything was properly cleaned, and took to a 500 degree pre heat like the rod manufacture recommends. After a few passes the weld could just be lifted out by hand ... So now on to "Plan B" of making special pins for the broken areas and make this a useable tool again .....

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Blake, Kansas City on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 09:21 pm:

Thanks Donnie,

Your revelations should help me in my negotiations for the one I've got my eye on. Hard to believe but it's in a small town Ford dealer service department. Until I identified it for them nobody knew what it was. Wish me luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Skille on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 12:21 pm:

Donnie,
If you would rather not spend the time making patterns for the cast iron fixtures and then having them cast, give Langs a call. They have them and all you will have to do is machine them.

The top of the fixture is sold cast iron, no steel there, that's why your weld came off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 02:17 pm:

Don, Thanks for that info. You really saved me a bunch of work. The two cast fixtures are 110.00 for the pair. I would not have thought the top surface would be cast iron, as it chips and breaks so easy. The very top 1/4 inch or so is definitely hardened. I have welded cast iron for years. Its hard to weld but can be done. The thing that gets me about the iron in my table is the very noticeable smell of sulphur. I may just be lucky and it was a "bad day" at the foundry. Castings at foundries are subject to a bad melt... Things do not always get mixed like they should ... Just for the heck of it, Im going to give some nickel rods a try ... Thanks again


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 05:43 pm:

Donnie, certanium 889 rods have worked well for me on a lot of different cast irons as they don't shrink and don't require pre heating but are kinda pricy. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 07:23 pm:

Keith, Ill check into the rods. Eutectic 680 has been our go to rod for anything "problem steel" It is advertised to be low temp, high strength, self tempering, and self stress relieving. It is for everything from cast iron to, spring steel. I have welded leaf springs and coil springs back together with it, and no loss of temper. We just refered to it as "miracle rods" Ive not given up yet. as a Boilermaker we are proud that the only things we can not weld are the "break of day" or a "broken heart" We specialize in the hard to do jobs done quickly, the Impossible just takes a little longer...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Jefferson, Ohio on Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 07:36 pm:

Donnie, If you can't fix it you can always put it on your desk for a paper weight! :-)


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