Magnets recharge

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Magnets recharge
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Brom on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 01:10 pm:

My magneto not works and i want to know, what can i do, to restart the mags. I have a T from 1911.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 01:24 pm:

There are different ways of charging magnets. The most effective is charging the individual magnets with the engine out of the car. This gives you the strongest charge, and will allow starting the car without a battery. You can also charge the magnets as a group, with the engine in the car. This will give a charge strong enough for the engine to run on magneto, but will probably require starting on battery. The forum and the MTFCA Electrical System book can tell you how to do whichever method you want to use. Which do you prefer?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 02:54 pm:

I made this deviceThere are probably dozens of procedures, you have to sort out the + and - and the N and S to get it right. It may take some trial and error. I used three 12 volt batteries (36 volts) and connect the plus to the device and just strike the negative once or twice, For an optimum charge it is recommended that the magnet is given a good rap with a piece of hardwood while in contact. This may take two people as it is done very quickly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan Pfau on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 03:03 pm:

I made something similar, but have always used just a 12V battery. Is the 36V necessary? Mine seemed to work OK the couple of times I've done it, but I was just "winging it"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 03:16 pm:

I believe the 36 volts is required to attain the maximum flux density. I tried one battery and almost nothing happened, a second battery was better, however three batteries was best.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan Pfau on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 03:57 pm:

Mine weren't too bad to start with, so maybe I didn't do as much as I thought. I'll try it with more juice next time. Thanks for the tip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 04:47 pm:

The traditional test of a charge is for the magnet to hold a cast iron piston (2 pounds). With my home-made charger and 36 volts I charged all my magnets to hold four pounds easily, and some came close to holding 4. I added an extra six volt battery and found that 42 volts didn't seem to make any difference.


I used pieces of axle shaft for cores and added plastic pipe on the ends so the magnets could be partly inside the coils. About 190 feet of 20 AWG wire made approximately 500 turns in each coil.


Magnet in, ready to charge.


It was probably overkill, but I flashed each magnet several times.


Four pounds.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 06:11 pm:

Steve's method is fine, but overkill. It would pick up four pounds using that coil and a single 12 volt battery.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 07:12 pm:

I would tend to have the spark away from the battery, they can explode.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 07:30 pm:

Frank, It sounds like you have the engine in the car? Tom Carnegie from Antique Auto Ranch gave a detailed instruction of how to do a magnet recharge in the car and was about the simplest one that I've ever read. You might Google his name with MTFCA forum and find it or simply give him a call.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 08:36 pm:

My magneto did not work on my 1915, but it was a reassembly and I don't know if it ever worked. We read voltage coming out of the magneto and got nothing. We cleaned up the contact and installed new wire. Very low voltage. Then we found out we need to set our volt meter to AC and we get anywhere from 6v to 24v depending on the idle speed. Everything worked.

We were all prepared to charge the magnets in the car and had batteries and cables and compass all lined up.

Perhaps the OP needs to check some other things in the system prior to just charging off to charge the magnets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 09:24 pm:

The model T magnets will only reach a maximum flux density. For greater flux density different metals are required.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 11:27 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, January 20, 2017 - 11:46 pm:

This one may be easier to read for in car charging. Some use 1 battery, some 2 but I always use 3 as shown.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Brom on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 03:10 am:

Yes the motor is in Car and i wont to try to charge in Motor. I hope it is the right way. Thank your for al
I will try to do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Allen on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 08:18 am:

I'm assuming with the "in-car" method, that you disconnect the magneto post wire before you start.....correct?

Would there be risk of frying anything in the car's electrical system with all that voltage flowing through things?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 08:55 am:

That distance from center of the transmission cover to the compass has always been in error, on most diagrams, as the number referenced should be to the pivot point of the compass needle and not to the edge of the case, as compass cases come in many different sizes.

Those spools that support the magnets are 2 3/4th inches apart and they should be centered with the Mag Post for the charging operation.

That means that the compass pivot point should be centered 1 3/8th inches from the Mag Post center.

The magnet's ability to pick up a two pound magnet is the minimum value that will produce a working magneto.

A good magnet charge will allow the magnet to pick up several pounds more than two.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 09:34 am:

Here's how I recharged my magnets in the car in 2010. www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/159978.html. Still as strong as new. I can even start my car on mag. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 01:49 pm:

Thanks Jim! This is the most common and wrong compass placement distance photo that I was talking about in my above post.

Compass


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 02:55 pm:

Fahnestock devotes six pages to this, in small type, with less than a page of that being illustrations, so he gives it pretty thorough coverage. His drawings give measurements using the center of the mag post and the center if the compass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Franko on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 04:30 pm:

What is the o.d. of the compass? Would'nt it change the measurement? Or is the measurement measured from the center of the compass.Thanks in advance! Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 04:55 pm:

That was my point!

The measurement has to be 1 3/8th inches from the center of the compass.

The fore and aft position on the compass is not as critical.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 05:18 pm:

Agreed, 1 3/8" it should be.
One thing I've come across on a magneto coil plate, is it was cracked around 2 of the mounting bolts, I'm assuming and putting it down to a in car charge on a very worn engine with a large air gap, so I do think there is some risk in this procedure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 08:15 pm:

Frank, not to rain on any ones parade but if you just acquired this T and or don't know the history of the engine, it may be time for a tear down as there are a number of things that can prevent a magneto from working. I consider all such engines suspect for problems. Best to go in further and not take a chance on things flying apart especially a engine of that age. MHO KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 09:02 pm:

Frank

Prior to re-charging, check again the operation of the magneto.

Some times the contact terminal is shorted from metallic debris, clean it first, determine the contact terminal is good.





Then check the output of the magneto by spinning the crank and see if a 12v bulb will glow. Could be simple fix.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Brom on Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - 10:43 am:

Hi Dan,
i checked it at first and clean it. So there are only 9 Volts.
At first i had bought a new magneto without result. I checke the whole Elektrik also the coilbox.
Thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - 07:05 pm:

Keep a few of those 1156 bulbs on hand, for retests, as they are like flash bulbs with a good magneto.

The go poof at about 18 volts and a good mag can put out up to 36 volts when the engine is run up.

You may get only one test with each bulb.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip thompson on Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - 08:41 pm:

I did mine in the car using a dc welder as the power source I can now hand crank it on mag.philip


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Brom on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 - 08:18 am:

Thank you for all Help. The magneto runs now.


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