Exhaust nut leak repair?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Exhaust nut leak repair?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ignacio Valdes on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 02:15 am:

Hi, my steel exhaust nut is leaking. It is on tight. I have a big pipe wrench and think I can get it off but then what?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Jefferson, Ohio on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 07:57 am:

The exhaust pipe is bent and if it is not properly in line with the manifold it will not seal correctly no matter how tight the nut is. BE CAREFUL THE NUT AND PIPE ARE FINE THREAD AND CAN BE STRIPPED EASILY. I find it is easiest for me when I leave the exhaust pipe hang loose and rotate it to proper alignment while I finger tighten the nut. It is also recommended that you use the proper "Exhaust nut wrench" which is designed to fit the nut and the curve of the firewall. A pipe wrench can smash the exhaust nut because it only pulls from two sides of the nut. The exhaust nut wrench applies equal pressure on all sides so it doesn't crush the nut. After the nut is tight then I hang the pipe under the frame. Sometimes it is easier to cradle the pipe loosely in a wire loop hanging from the frame until you get everything in line.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 08:17 am:

Dennis, Good advice I am getting ready to put my exhaust nut back on and will try it you way. The wire loop might just help me out. Thanks Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 08:47 am:

I always use some never seize on the threads. Makes removal a lot easier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 08:54 am:

Steel? All the ones I've ever seen were bronze or brass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 09:30 am:

Use an original pack nut wrench, or a reproduction. It will make life so much easier. They are on ebay all the time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 09:38 am:

Anyone have a picture of that wrench?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 09:49 am:

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3061W.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 10:16 am:

Ford used steel nuts after about 1922 or so. Repros have been made of brass for decades.

My grandfather Adolph Peterson made mine using a hack saw and a file, from a big piece of scrap 1/2" steel plate.





You need to tighten that nut with the engine warm. They do not strip out easily, you can apply all your strength against a wrench like this one.

Do not under any circumstances use a big 36" long pipe wrench on that nut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 10:21 am:

Speaking of wire loops, just wrap a length of 12 guage copper wire around the pipe right up at the flange. When you tighten the nut it'll press on it, should stop your leak. Can't take credit for it, read about it in one of the magazines! Pays to be a member.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 11:13 am:

Tim
Most recent Model T Times.
Page 19


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 01:02 pm:

If you use a pipe wrench and cheater on the nut, you may very likely become a member of the two piece exhaust manifold club! That may not be a bad thing, as the repo manifolds are well made and you get to start over with a new (and therefore easy to tighten) nut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 09:36 pm:

Correct me if I'm wrong but an open ended special wrench could give the same results as a pipe wrench. Two corners of six...
Wait! The wrench is beaten on and off with a hammer. Nah.
An adjustable spanner (monkey wrench) or a Crescent wrench could be the same unless the jaws were tightened up hard and then all parts flex while pulling and voila! Two corners again.
Or if it's stuck tight, two piece manifold club.
Hmmm, some penetrating oil and some tapping on the nut over the course of a few days?
I'm speaking out of turn again.
Duane


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Landry, Hudson, NH on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 09:49 pm:

Duey, I thought the same as you when I was young and foolish. Okay, maybe not young! Then I sucked it up and bought the right wrench from Lang's. It's incredible how much easier it is to deal with that nut when you have the right tool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 11:12 pm:

I'll take that Chris.
Old and still foolish Duane
Told ya I was out of turn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 11:25 pm:

I have a wrench that came from my grandfather. He passed in 1977. The tools were passed down to me over the years. Never knew what it was for because it was a home made wrench. He had a forge and I can remember as a little kid watching my grandmother turning the crank on the blower while he worked metal. I was looking through his tools this summer and recognized the wrench and thought it may fit the exaust nut. Sure enough it did. I used it last weekend while installing nickle freeze plugs. It is alot easier than trying to get the monkey wrench on in. Its a great feeling I get when I use that wrench now. Not sure if he forged it or made it from something else but it works great.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 01:58 am:

Pipe wrench closes down on the nut, which deforms it enough to pinch it against the manifold. The open end wrench doesn't close down, but one hopes it doesn't spread out while under load!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ignacio Valdes on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 09:02 am:

@Dallas picture of the wrench, please :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 10:23 am:

That Ford exhaust pack nut wrench, either repro or old one is what you need for sure.

There is little room in the cockpit up around the engine block to get any common wrench there.

The Ford offset wrench has wide jaws to snug the nut, and the correct angle to allow you to pull it tight, most times give it a bump or two with a mallet on the wrench handle to snug that nut.



It's a tight spot there!





Ford wrench, 3Z-624 , showing some wear from long time use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer --- Klaaswaal NL on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 10:56 am:

You can use a pipe wrench, BUT you have to [open] the wrench, so there is no clamping force on the nut
Toon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 11:49 am:

Ignacio, when I get home from work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 12:07 pm:

Ignacio,

If it hasn't been mentioned already, it's not all that hard to break off the end of the manifold if you get too "enthusiastic" in removing the pack nut. You'd be surprised how thin the casting really is. Even more surprised when you can actually see it after it breaks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 05:04 pm:

Ignacio,I am sure he used another wrench to make this . I never looked at it real close but it has a diamond shape with a W in the center and the number 508 on opposite side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Shore on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 06:49 pm:

Chuck Smith has one in the classifieds now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 09:48 pm:

I use the 3z packing wrench. So far works good. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ignacio Valdes on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 03:12 pm:

Squirting it with penetrating oil every day and trying again with the proper mighty wrench. So far not budging.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 03:33 pm:

Keep doing what you're doing, but also try tapping (not pounding) the end of the wrench, first in the loosening direction, then in the tightening direction each day. Once you get that first bit of movement you're halfway home, just keep soaking it and tapping it each day and eventually it will loosen up without breaking anything. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 03:35 pm:

You have to heat it with a torch, then loosen it while it is hot. The reverse when tightening it, warm up the engine, then tighten the nut.

If it was properly tightened you will never loosen it cold no matter what you spray on it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 03:46 pm:

You might even need to saw the nut to get it off. If you use a pipe wrench you will distort the nut and also risk breaking the manifold. Order a new nut from the supplier. When you get ready to replace things, be sure that the muffler is loose and that the pipe seats straight on the manifold,and that the threads on the manifold are good. Then tighten up the nut as far as you can by hand and finish up with the wrench. You might need to tap the wrench when you take it off, but don't tap when installing. Instead tighten then warm up the engine, and then tighten again. I like to put an offset of thick sheetmetal on one of the flat spots of the nut and a hose clamp around the pipe. That way the nut will not unscrew or slip off if the threads are bad. see picture.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Rinaldo on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 04:01 pm:

I found an open end wrench that was the correct size at a local Military surplus store in a box of misc. tools. It cost $2.50


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Azevedo on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 - 04:35 pm:

I think many are missing the boat on this subject. The location of the wrench has a great deal with tightening or loosing that exhaust nut. Whatever wrench, whether a fixed open end wrench or pipe wrench, place the wrench to the back side of the nut. The back side resists crushing which binds the threads. I have run miles of PVC pipe with threaded adapters. Place the wrench wrong and it eggs the pipe or coupling and you have problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ignacio Valdes on Thursday, February 02, 2017 - 11:21 pm:

@John you are clairvoyant. I have now joined the 2 piece exhaust manifold club!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 12:08 am:

Ignatio, when you get your new manifold, pay strict attention to the mating of the pipe flange and the manifold. They must be in alignment. If you use the nut to pull any mis-alignment of the pipe against the manifold, things will be under tension. This invites the manifold to bend when heated and then you may have leaks at the block face.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 12:44 am:

Hi Ignacio,

I am sorry for the loss of your manifold.

When reassembling, DO follow the advice regarding good alignment of the flange on the pipe and the bevel on the manifold.

Also, and I Find this Very Important: before you screw the nut on to the manifold, apply Never Seize (or an equivalent) to the the threads on the manifold AND to the threads inside the nut. Be generous. This will go a long way towards allowing the joint to be disassembled years in the future Without the risk of breaking the manifold. I have done it this way for decades and have not broken a manifold yet.

Good luck with your project. Bill


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