How not to wire rear axle differential .. :-( :-( or another KC Warford story ??

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: How not to wire rear axle differential .. :-( :-( or another KC Warford story ??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 01:46 pm:

Im in the process of rebuilding the rear end for the speedster project. So here is a little back story to this rear end. I was given a virtually new KC Warford and the rear end and shortened drive shaft. It had been installed in a car and the owner did not like it. Too noisy.. ???? So he gave it all to the man who gave it to me. From outward appearances the rear end assembly looked good. But I have learned to never trust a rear end with out looking at it myself. Or at least know (and trust) who rebuilt it. So here is what I found in a rear end that obviously had been "gone thru recently"

1. Two babbit thrust washers, one had totally dissolved into mush.

2. This had allowed the steel thrust plates to chew up the differential housing on one side. It is a shame because it appears that the housings were perfect when it was gone thru. The other half of the differential housing is perfect as well as the spyders.

3. The ring and pinion gears were new. But now the ring is pitted from the babbit and other junk going thru the gears as they hammered themselves from side to side. I may be able to re-use the ring, but it is "Iffy" at best. Ill know more, as I do a better inspect.

4 Now for the really dumb thing. Ill post some pics of the way the bolts were wired. I really can not even explain "WHY" The wires were just shoved thru the holes and bent over.

5. There was a new fiber washer between the axles. That is another sign that the rear end was gone thru.

I did find two good hyatts in the center. :-)

So with the dissolved babbit thrust washer allowing the gears to just crash back and forth, no wonder it was "too loud"

So with the "rant" finished, lets just say "Come on people" Rebuilding a rear end like this one was rebuilt is just ridicoulous.... It is not even a good "shade tree job" Lots of money was spent on a new KC Warford and new ring and pinion gear. Why reuse the old babbit thrust washers ... "Arrrrrrrgggg" OK maybe I "ranted" a little more ... Im going back to the shop now .....

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 03:26 pm:

Good Lord Donnie. I'd rather open one up and just see original stuff that is pure junk RATHER THAN to see one that someone "built" with that amount of ridiculousness.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 04:00 pm:

My TT project awaits. I haven't looked inside the engine, transmission, rear axle, etc., but you can bet I sure will. The previous owner "went through" it. Oh, me of little faith. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Jefferson, Ohio on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 05:00 pm:

Well at least he found a use for an old wire coat hanger! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 05:16 pm:

I have tore down many T rear axle that had been wired like that, it must have worked till the babbitt thrust washers gave out or you would of never known?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 06:44 pm:

Maybe it is a "old timer" way to do it. Looks kinda lame to me.. ??? This is the second, "Rebuilt" rear end for me this fall/winter work season, that is junk. I rebuilt the rear end in my "restored" 1927 touring we use as a tour car. It also had the babbit washers in a "supposed to be rebuilt" rear end.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 06:51 pm:

Probably at least 10% of the carburetors I get in have been "rebuilt" and I redid half a dozen Ruckstells that had been "rebuilt." I don't trust anybody's work unless I know them and what they did to it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 07:14 pm:

The one Im rebuilding had babbit thrust washers that had very little wear. I believe the U joint has been rebuilt ,as it is bolted together instead of rivets. The pin in the U joint was missing completely. Makes you wonder. The wire on mine was ran straight through in one piece and twisted in one spot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 07:17 pm:

I've also torn down many wired that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 08:37 pm:

Even though they were wired in a ridiculous manner, it dose not appear that any of them let go or caused any damage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 10:58 pm:

Ok, maybe the wire job did work. Seems like it may have been a common practice. But I still highly recommend to not do it that way. But why would anyone reuse the babbit washers. I guess the rear end could have been rebuilt years before the KC Warford was installed. (I use the rebuilt term very loosly). But all of this is supposed to be from a driven car. The KC Warford is just like new. Not even dirty. So someone spent a lot of money, trusting a poor rear end ... Im over my "Rant" for the time being .. :-). It did help out that I tore down 4 rear ends today, and I found two good ring and pinion sets. Six good hyatt bearings. and three good differential case assemblies. As well as two good drive shafts, and one very good u-joint. I even found a good pair of the "Woodworth" oil return springs for the axle shafts ... No good axles, But I found way more good than I normally do when "mining for parts". have fun and be safe, Donnie Brown ....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 11:23 pm:

Donnie, I would be thankful for that poor workmanship. Otherwise you would not have benefitted as you have. If it really cuts you up, just repack the KC Warford and ship it to me. I will gladly pay the shipping.

Helpful as always,
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Thomas on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 05:22 am:

Donnie, you said you got this for FREE so it was worth at least what you paid for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 10:07 am:

Do not take this wrong. I am not complaining about the gift in the least. And the person who gave it to me is a very qualified T person. He just never got around to checking it out or using it himself. It just seems that there is so many of the rear end rebuilds that are done very poorly. The person who origionaly had this rear end had it in his "driver car" and was using it. When I see something like this, I just get a sick feeling about how close someone came to a very bad day....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 11:52 am:

Dallas,

I would NOT use a bolted together U-joint. Rebuilt or not. Needs to be riveted!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 12:05 pm:

Thank Jerry.
That was my opinion also. I have a good one to use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 12:26 pm:

I must admit I had one of those very bad days. I was driving my 27 along a relatively busy street and I was full throttle and just barley keeping up to the traffic, I was comfortable and enjoying the ride. Off to the side from an approach from a gas station a lady driver was waiting for her turn to enter, I was about 1.5 car lengths from her (at full speed) and she pulled right out in front of me, we missed by fractions, however my natural reaction was to press everything I could get my feet on to avoid the collision. My reaction put all the stopping forces on the little pinion gear and stripped it clean of all its teeth. After a tow job home I pulled the diff and some of the spacer washers were paper thin causing the mesh to be out to the limits. With out this harsh event it could have ran for many years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 01:03 pm:

David,

Without that harsh event you could have had a harsher event! You're lucky it happened the way it did.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 07:07 pm:

Amen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 12:19 am:

Good luck comes in many forms and ways.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dustin Layne on Wednesday, February 01, 2017 - 03:01 pm:

I'm a little late to the conversation, but I figured I'd give some advice.

The biggest noise problem we have seen is from drilling the U-Joint Pin hole in the wrong position. This throws the backlash off between the pinion and ring gear. The noise travels up the torque tube and sounds like it is coming straight from the gear box.

Dustin Layne


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