Pin replacement on Hyatt bearings

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Pin replacement on Hyatt bearings
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Moorehead on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 08:12 pm:

I had a conversation with a friend today and we were talking about Hyatt bearings. Has anyone ever replaced the pins in the bearings or are the pins available? Our thought was taking two bearings and making one good one. I realize there are a boat load of bearings still out there but I thought it might be interesting to rebuild some just to see how difficult it is was to do it.
Does anyone have the measurements for the pins, like the OD, type of metal, turn down size at the ends, length, etc? This may not be very practical but might be fun to do. If someone has already tried or successfully made the repair, any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 08:37 pm:

Tom, years ago I tore down used Model T Hyatt rear axle bearings and used the parts to make rear axle bearings for my Model 10 Buick as the ones for that car were not available. I don't remember the dimensions but as I recall I added one more roller to each bearing by making new ends. I made up everything except for the spiral rollers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Moorehead on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 09:32 pm:

Sure doesn't seem to be much info on the pins. I was hoping someone might have a drawing. I guess that would have to come Hyatt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 09:53 pm:

As Val did, I broke down some Hyatts to shorten them up for use in another car. Made new pins to do it. Essentially what you're trying to do. Don't mean to sound like a smart ass, but, since you've already got the Hyatts, with the pins in them, just measure the pins you have and make new ones to suit.
For the small ends that fit in the end rings, make them a slight interference fit and have them protrude about 1.5x their diameter. Put them in, peen them down, presto. Peen them carefully so they don't buckle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Moorehead on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 07:17 am:

Jerry, you got any idea of what kind of metal they are made of? And I understand your comments on the measurements and how to replicate them. I was just unsure of what the metal is.
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 09:11 am:

Why bother? Mike the rollers. They may not be worth saving anyway. They should mike at .499"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 09:27 am:

They work fine at .497" too, the limit seems to be pitting of the roller surface. The wear accelerates when the cage loosens up, letting the rollers roll at an angle, so stiffening the cage by riveting with new pins should give a longer service life for some rollers.

The inside diameter may vary some between axle housings, so with new sleeves and axles, unworn Hyatts can be hard to fit. There's often a place for well used parts too ;)

(just mike both ends so the rollers aren't too conical - and I wouldn't like to mix conical rollers in different directions in new cages..)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 10:42 am:

Tom,

I don't think anything super high strength is needed. A good tough choice might be AISI-1144, (a.k.a. "Stressproof"). I think that will still peen o.k. I probably used whatever I had laying around.

Roller size is important of course, but so is taper. With a tapered roller, the circumference at one end is greater than the other which will cause the roller to skew as it rolls, and twist the cage. That's most likely how cages get loose in the first place. Outer Hyatt rollers tend to wear more at their outer ends, (nearest the wheel), while their inner ends wear less, as they're loaded less there. If you have tapered Hyatts, that are still not too small, use them as the inner bearings and point the large end of the taper towards the center, (differential).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 10:42 am:

Ford's specs for the rollers was 0.498"-0.501".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 10:59 am:

IMHO the hard part is doing the job so pins are tight. Problem with peening is invariably you bend the pin or the end retainers. Consider spot welds.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 11:49 am:

Richard,

They were originally peened. Maybe hot peened??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 01:37 pm:

I've tried to tighten old ones and was not successful. I think that since you can pick these up very cheap at swap meets that it will be many years before you could justify the expense of making new axles for the bearings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Moorehead on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 04:35 pm:

Thanks all for the responses. I have successfully re-peened and tightened up the pins. I was just trying to save the good ole rollers. I just hate to throw stuff away. But availability at swap meets is usually good.
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 05:46 pm:

While peening may work for a while, the cage got loose originally and that compromised the retaining pins or rods.

Prefer to find and use good originals that have tight cages and good rollers.


Re-worked loose cages


Good Ford mfg. Hyatt with tight cage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Robinson, Salty Bottom, AL on Monday, January 23, 2017 - 05:56 pm:

I agree with Dan. Nothing better than a good Ford bearing. Got any to sell Dan? I contacted three forum members last week and all promised to check their stash. A week later I haven't heard back from any of them. There must be a shortage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 12:46 pm:

Bill

Sold out last year at Luray VA swap. Time to renew the stash. :-)


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