Glue or not

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Glue or not
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Friday, January 27, 2017 - 09:58 pm:

I ordered new copper coated gaskets and glands for my 27 to change out the manifolds. I have read many opinions on here both yes and no but should I put any high temperature permatex glue on the glands and the gaskets. I am going to put the manifolds on tomorrow. It's a Wilmo manifold I had ceramic coated, if that makes any difference. Thanks for the info in advance. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Friday, January 27, 2017 - 11:58 pm:

You will probably get several opinions but as for me, I would not use KW Copper Coat. I broke a head bolt while installing a head with Copper Coat on it. I destroyed the gasket getting it back off. I used silver paint the next time. As for the Wilmo manifold, I have an ANCO, which I think is the same type (combination intake/exhaust manifold). It is coming off at the next opportunity because<n economy type deal does not go well with the hi-performance stuff I have in the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Mills_Indian Rocks, FL on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 12:41 am:

Tim, you are going to wish that you had three arms, and that each hand had 7 fingers when you try and mount manifolds with the gland and ring type gaskets.

Some use Permatex to hold things together...and then hope to add a seal (Why? That's what the crush rings are for and why you use crush rings but once)...

Some are good enough to do it all dry...but I suspect they also use modified manifold clamps to help ease the chore...and have already done it a few times before...

Others, (like me) just use a dab of grease...holds things together, probably burns off pretty quick...

That all said, if your counter-bores are wallowed in either the block or the manifold, you will probably need something more than grease as the gland will not seat and it would be 50/50 that the crush ring will be good enough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan Danbury, WI on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 04:41 am:

I make sure all the surfaces are as clean as I can get them. I always spread the glands a hair just to get them to stay in the head, then slip the copper gaskets over them. Usually they will stay put. Seems to me I rotated installed the two outer manifold bolts and rotated the clamps enough to hold the intake on while I installed the exhaust manifold. Then I installed the inside bolts and clamps on as usual. The final step was to rotate the clamps into the correct position of the outer bolts and torque things up. Make sure you chase out the bolt holes first and blow them out. I always use a high temp anti-seize compound on the bolts. If you do happen to break one, anti-seize makes it a lot easier to get them back out, plus makes for more uniform torque.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 07:06 am:

Time, I just did mine, had thoughts of my own, but still asked here. I added a smearing of Ultra Black Permatex to only the intake rings. The exhaust don't need it, but I feel the intake needs assurance of being sealed tight as a leaking intake can cause issues, such as hard starting.

I also took some extra manifold clamps and cut one side of the legs off so you can place one of the manifolds on and snug it down while you get the other manifold in place. But you have a Wilmo manifold so you shouldn't need such things or a third hand. I put the glands in the block and set the rings over them and put it on. I had no issues with rings falling off during install, but others have. Maybe I was more careful?

Good luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 08:29 am:

Boy! Did I miss the question with my answer! Sorry about that. I guess it was too late in the day for me to be posting! Earlier in the day I had been visiting with a friend of mine about a cylinder head he took off his car which had a steel clad head gasket. Perhaps, I had that conversation stuck in my mind. I think the others covered your question above.
Verne


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 08:39 am:

I have done it before but with the copper gasket is there a correct side to the block or manifold, I normally get the fake asbestos gaskets. Maybe should have again, just though these might last longer. They don't look exatly as my last set did and the also sent a 11-17 valve cover instead of 26-27 like my car. I always buy from langs but this order was just messed up and in a pinch for time right now. Going to a show in a few weeks and need it done asap. Need to call them again Monday. They are always nice. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 08:54 am:

Verne, no problem I always value any information on these cars I can get about anything, as I have posted before there are no T guys or club in my area so all info is appreciated. No big deal. If it wasn't for the forum it would all be trial and error for me even though I have bought a lot of books over the last few months. Hearing it from you guys with real T world experience keeps me asking questions. The books explain everything as if the cars were still in ideal condition. You guys have all worked on them in the various states of repair. and even though I have had them for a few years i still feel I need to ask questions so I am not doing things 2-3 times. Thanks to everyone who has answered so far. I am taking pics and plan to post them when I am finished. I am terrible with the the uploads. Steve Jelf has even helped me upload before. Thank all of you. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 09:25 am:

Provided your manifold and block are in good condition the gland/ring set up is superior to the alternatives. Yes, two pairs of hands are better than one when doing the installation but it's worth the extra effort.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mario Brossard on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 11:11 am:

Hi Tim,

I use this tool which you could buy at Lang's. It took me less than 10 minutes to install the manifold and no glue need at all. I used several time with no problem. Hope that will help you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, January 28, 2017 - 11:31 am:

I never use any sealer on my manifold gaskets. Most important is to have a good surface and a straight manifold. I use the glands and copper rings and use a ten inch handle on my wrench. I turn as far as I can starting toward the center and working outward to the ends. Then go back over and tighten some more. I can tell when the nuts are turning and when they begin to get tight I stop. Then after I warm up the engine I go over and tighten them again. After I drive the car I turn them again and when they don't turn anymore they are tight. You just need to get that sense of feel between tight enough and too tight. Never tighten them till they break off! :-)

I don't have a problem with leakage. I think most gasket sealers such as ultra black would burn anyway. I don't use it on the manifold.

I have no experience with ceramic coating. It might chip or break if tightened too tight.
Norm


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