Small funnel oil return

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Small funnel oil return
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 07:34 am:

I usually install an outside oil line but in this recent engine rebuild I have found a small funnel internal oil return. Do most people pull them out and install the later large internal funnel?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 07:43 am:

Hi Mark,

I would. Why wouldn't you want more oil? Good luck with your project. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 07:46 am:

Ok ... so there is no difference in the block between funnel applications? And are the reproductions a better option than an original in this case?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 08:30 am:

Yes, they are. There's also an accessory internal oil line that runs along the left side of the pan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 08:31 am:

Maybe they bolt to different bolts(?) otherwise no difference. An original part, if at all available, is almost always to prefer before repros. Ford , especially by 1925-27, when the large funnel pipes were made, really knew what they were doing - and did it good. Repros have been reported to fall apart, needing better brazing before use - and some tweaking to not come in contact with the rotating magnets..

Nothing wrong by adding an outside oil pipe too - especially the Texas T high volume style makes a difference.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 08:57 am:

Ford published a paper showing why they changed the size of the oil funnel. It's easy to see why the change was made. Note that this is with the SAE 20 oil that Ford specified. A thicker oil will flow slower than this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 10:31 am:

Both will interchange, the larger funnel is the way to go.


Original oil lines

The repro new large funnel is made a bit different in the mounting flange. Had to trim it with tin snips as didn't fit well and you don't want the funnel to stick out too much, the flange didn't want to lay down under the bolt head, as it was too wide.



Trimmed flange and re-bent to fit. Plus note the dab of extra braze on the funnel and pipe. The modern replacement can have a poor solder joint there. And to be safe, wrapped some of the safety wire around the tube to pull the funnel flush. No need in having the funnel stick up and hit a magnet on that spinning flywheel :-(







Even original funnels can come apart there!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James L. Bodkin - Jim on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 10:39 am:

When was the change to the large funnel made?

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 10:42 am:

http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc24.htm

1924
"JUL 17 Engine production records, Ford Archives
New style transmission covers began. New oil tube with a larger funnel began this date and was used in all production beginning August 12."

So it's a 1925 model year change.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 10:50 am:

The repros can be OK, but some may need a bit of massaging to fit right and not be hit by the magnet bolts. I did not assemble this engine, but I did have the task of going into it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patterson - Medical Lake, WA on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 12:01 pm:

I'm a new believer in replacing the oil line funnels in the engine. I just had a small funnel oiler break off, with the result being a siezed up engine with #1 piston cracked and the #1 wrist pin and piston welded together. I had driven my 1914 T speedster about 1/2 mile when the engine siezed. I'm now in the process of a complete engine tear-down for repairs and I'm using a new large funnel oiler plus an outside tube hogshead oiler. I try to console my misfortune by telling myself that the engine is over 100 years old, so occasional failures may be expected.

Me recommendation - when rebuilding a T engine, include replacing the oiler tubes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 01:34 pm:

I had one of the in the pan oil tubes which worked well until I installed a Scat crank and it hit the line.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Moorehead on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 07:40 pm:

Try the two funnel arraignment Lang sells that mounts between the oil pan and inspection cover. One on each side. Catches oil on the bottom side of the flywheel.. Seems to work well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 08:53 pm:

The right main bearing bolt doesn't seem to be seated ?????????? And who doesn't "turn over" an engine while assembling to verify interference with anything ??????


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