Valve Upgrade - 11 Touring

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Valve Upgrade - 11 Touring
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 07:17 pm:

I plan to replace the two piece valves in Carl and would like to use "modern" Chevy valves. My question is would I need to upgrade to adjustable valve lifters or can I use the stock Ford valve lifters? I'd prefer not to change the valve lifters if possible.

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 08:25 pm:

The Ford lifters will be too short with Chevrolet valves. Even if you use lash caps, they are too short.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Webb on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 11:00 pm:

Use 1972 351 Windsor exhaust valves all through out with 11/32" keepers and Chevrolet retainers.
You will have to cut them off to use adjustable lifters or file them off to use stock lifters. (If I remember 30 thous. to cut off)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 06:17 am:

Agreed on the 351 Windsor exhaust valves. I have an old Black and Decker valve grinder that will grind the ends nicely. Depending on your cam and if it is new or used will matter if and how much you need to take off the valve tips using stock Ford lifters. I fine tuned each valve for the position it was in. I used Ford 8N/9N valve spring retainers as they are smaller diameter and do work with the stock T valve springs (part# 8BA-6514). The keepers were the stock ones that fit the valves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 08:35 am:

Can you provide me the p/n's for the valves and keepers? I'm guessing I can buy them from any parts store or Rock Auto?

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 10:49 am:

Unless you are doing the machine work yourself the replacement Model T valves from Langs or Chaffins will be cheaper when you consider labor and time spent. Re use your original valve spring caps and retainer pins. The repros have been troublesome.

Click here:

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3052SS.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 12:47 pm:

Windsor valves are the ticket here. Sealed power number is
V1993. You can order them from Rock Auto for 1970 vintage 351 Windsor V8. Don't use the Windsor retainers, they are too large. Use small block Chevy intake retainers and keepers of 60-80s vintage. Stock valve springs, and buy new ones. The Windsor valves have larger heads, so you may have to open up the seats a little, and they will flow better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 01:07 pm:

I think these are what you are looking for. The proper seats and keepers can be found here too.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/3052M.aspx

Hope this helps,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 01:46 pm:

One of our club members graciously said he would help me grind the valves and cut the seats if needed. He has the equipment to do so.

Thanks again guys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 03:49 pm:

Philip - You kinda' struck a nerve with me when you said,.... "grind the valves and cut the seats"!

I think "valve grinding" is becoming an obsolete term. I am a firm believer in "cutting" new valve seats with a carbide "cutter" such as the Neway equipment. I am also a firm believer in the more modern 3-angle valve job. It is pretty cheap and easy to replace old valves with modern stainless steel valves, or, reface the old valves, also with carbide cutter. The 3-angle valve seat,...cut with a combination of 30 deg, 45 deg., and 60 deg. carbide cutters allows you to end up with a very desirable narrow valve seat, and you can actually cut the new seat so as to place it at or near the center of the valve face. Most people don't know it, but nearly all modern automotive machine shops that do "valve jobs" no longer take the time and trouble to hand-lap valves with valve grinding compound, simply because it just simply isn't necessary anymore with modern accurate equipment. And very thorough and time consuming cleaning up after using valve grinding compound is extremely important, as just a few grains of that abrasive stuff remaining can be very damaging to an engine!

Philip, I'd be interested in following your "valve job" that you and your club member friend do, especially if it involves actually "cutting" new valve seats. Would be nice if you guys could document the work with photos here on the forum,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 03:56 pm:

Philip - Just to avoid any possible confusion because I mentioned "refacing" old valves,....in your case, you should by all means, replace those old 2-piece valves as they often come apart, with very damaging consequences!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 04:53 pm:

Some of us still use stones to do the seats. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 05:28 pm:

If you use the original lifters, be sure to inspect the surface for cupping. The top should be smooth where it contacts the valve. I would also suggest that you use the valve timing by piston height method of adjusting the clearance. The instructions are found in the book by the club "Engine". This method of adjustment will not give you the quietest running engine, but it will be smooth running. If you use a new camshaft and adjustable lifters, you can use the valve clearance method of adjustment for a quiet and smooth running engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 05:59 pm:

I did forget that one important fact (as mentioned) that with the Windsor valves, you do need to grind (cut) the seats a little bigger in the block to accommodate the slightly larger valve head / seat area. That is the other nice thing about them, you don't have to worry about worn seats and sunken valves. Open up the seats and get everything to fit and function as intended.

I'm with Mark ^, I still use stones to cut seats too. My valve equipment is older than me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 06:26 pm:

Let me rephrase my last message. He has a valve grinding machine to grind stems to length if required and a set of valve set cutters. Not sure if they are Neway or not. I'll ream the guides myself.


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