Engine tear down problem

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Engine tear down problem
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Hanson on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 11:16 pm:

My son and I started to tear down the engine in our 1920 Centerdoor and found that we could not get the head bolt over the water inlet out. It would spin but not come out. Come to find out, the head bolt went all the way through the block and exited into the void behind the water inlet. Someone "fixed" the break through by using a long non-standard head bolt with a nut attached to the end. See photos. The last photo is the cut-off end of the head bolt.

This is not a problem I have any experience with. Can this problem be fixed or is the block toast?

The only positive about all this so far is seeing my 14-year learn more about how to work on a Model T.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 11:25 pm:

At first I thought threads were ok and had a post for that and then looked at pics again. I would just thread-cert (helicoil, thread-cert, whatever method you prefer) the hole back same size as the others and make a plug for the other end with some JB marine weld. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Block definitely isn't toast.

(Message edited by Wreckrod9 on February 03, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Hanson on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 11:44 pm:

Thanks Seth. We will helicoil the bolt to give it a good seat to screw into and then plug the hole from the bottom using JB marine weld. I am so glad that this is repairable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Friday, February 03, 2017 - 11:57 pm:

I agree with Seth
I use blue permeatex myself after a helicopter coil is installed
Jb weld or simular good to at the water inlet opening


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 03:25 am:

As I recall, those holes are not supposed to go all the way through. However, sometimes, a minor flaw in the casting will leak a little water in, and the bolt rusts into place. If the bolt breaks, sometimes people will drill on through.
I have used several of the helicoil brand, usually with very good results. I understand that there are some similar repair products that may be better, but I have never used them. I have a few times even made my own repair sleeves with good results.
I would also recommend attempting to seal off the bottom of the hole. Clean it very well. Try to get a good length of thread replaced, then, clean it again. Dry thoroughly, and apply a good covering in the bottom of the hole (Not enough to require shortening of the head bolt!). Whatever adhesive/sealant you prefer (I like JB Weld, others have other preferences). I would push it up from below, and not risk flowing into your new threads that you want to use. Then use a patch of duct tape to hold it in place until it has fully set. Remove the duct tape so that it doesn't find its way into a radiator tube later.
Clean and check all the head bolt holes before you install the head. Be a little gentle with torquing the head bolts. I like 45 foot-pounds if using a good torque wrench, but often go by feel with a shorter wrench. Either way, I take them up slow the last ten or so pounds.
When you are ready to start the engine, re-torque it again. As it warms up, I re-torque again, and again. And again.
Just a few hopefully helpful suggestions.
But unless you find a lot worse wrong with it than that? I would try to use the block.
Have fun! You want to make the most of these wonderful years with your kids.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 06:18 am:

FYI:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/522248.html?1425415180

Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 09:48 am:

A Heli-Coil fixed this '23 block.

Long ago some thoughtful mechanic drilled a hole thru the block, exiting the side (and missing any water jacket thankfully). Then placed a long rod, threaded at both ends at the cylinder head and the lower pan flange.

Just plugged that lower hole, left the pan flange hole, and using a Heli-Coil, allowed the use of a standard head bolt for repair.



Block looks like it was hit with Cupid's arrow!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J and M Machine Co Inc on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 10:19 am:

Mike: Block is repairable, we deal with this all the time.
Rather than helicoil or JB weld you want a permanent repair so you don't have to worry about antifreeze weeping.
The preferred insert we use is made by Locknstitch. it is a blind hole style insert to stop any leaks. if you have a good machinist friend one can be made in this style as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gene french on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 10:53 am:

Mike:
I was going to mention the blind hole inserts that J+M described ...I would use some RTV sealer on the insert threads to prevent seepage...and I commend you on your FATHER/SON project ...keep up the good work, the time spent as father and son is more valuable than any Model T ...always an optimist...Gene French


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 02:07 pm:

J&M that is dandy idea


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