On tour: local or national is it polite/acceptable to pass just for the sake of passing because you have a superior performing car?
Every body passes me, old cars or new cars. From my point of view it is fine if it is safe.
I see no problems with passing in a safe way PROVIDING you then don't just slow down. If you carry on into the distance, then great. What irritates me is people who pass and then just "poke along "
most tours i do it seems the folks want to run about 100 rpm above lugging speed, so when you get to even a small incline, your screwed already. instead of passing, i find it easier to just stay about a mile back, last car is best
Guess that depends on what YOUR club is ok with. There have been a few times that if I could have I would have passed the car ahead of me on tour because they slowed down at the bottom of going up a hill or were just going too slow for the range of my two speeds. Not racing here just trying to maintain a decent speed in high with out blocking traffic in low.
On one tour I put on, it's partly on open 55MPH highway, so it's go at your best speed and we meet a set spot. Gives those that need a little need for speed a chance to open up and go. (these aren't speedsters I am talking about but stock with maybe a few hop up items)
I like to lead from the rear LOL. I try to be the last one to leave the parking lot. That way you can see all the other cars that stop, break down, etc. That way you can stop and help them, give them a ride to the auto part store, to the gas station, or lend tools.
If someone is driving abnormally slow I will not hesitate to pass them, and if someone's car is struggling to get up a hill I will also pass if it is safe to do so. There's no etiquette involved, just common sense and safety.
The only time I ever passed anyone on a tour was when I was following a Hupp 20. The rest of the time I am usually being passed! For me tours are not a race so I am perfectly happy to be the first one out and the last one back.
Of course a lot depends on the traffic you have to deal with. It's easier for more modern cars to pass one car rather then a whole string of cars behind someone that is going "abnormally slow". In Oregon even country roads are Basic rule/55 as conditions allow unless other wise marked.
Good question Mike, I was really concerned about this when we went on our first out of state tour in Colorado. There was a loooong line of T's that were all happy going about 30 to 35. The road was open for miles ahead with a slight downhill and with my wifes urging I pulled out and passed everyone. I was sort of worried then cause if I had a flat tire or something everyone would then be passing me and give me to "See what Happens" look. The next time I looked in my mirror I spotted a fully loaded touring that flew by me and after that I didn't feel so guilty. I was happy to later find out that it was our fellow Cal guy, Dan McEachern and family.
I like it when everyone is driving at a speed they are comfortable with. Sometimes I see people passing when it is really not safe. I always try to pull to the side to allow a faster car to pass especially a modern then what gets me is they crowd me onto the shoulder as they pass.
I think every car/driver has their own comfy speed depending on the road. Since I have raced against Mike in Montana I would bet your speed is a bit faster than most like mine.
One of the most important etiquette issues I have seen is when a Model T with a few modern cars behind them doesn't pull over a bit to the side and allow the modern cars to pass. What happens then is the last car wants to pass the whole group and is usually not safe. This same thing happens when a modern car is trailing their buddy in a T. Other modern cars waiting for the first car to pass then starts the back up of cars.
One can not forget the tragedy that occurred on the Kanab tour when a touring pulled to the shoulder to allow cars to pass and flipped over in the ditch.
Be Safe and enjoy the ride and the time with fellow Model Ters
If you go on HCCA tours. you will encounter cars with widely varying capabilities. Even on a tour designed for larger cars, there will be a few slow ones. If I'm in a Model T, I will come up behind a two-cylinder Maxwell or a heavier Model T, and I will pass when safe. On the same tour, someone will come up behind me in a big 50-horsepower car that he's comfortable driving at speeds that make me nervous, so I let him pass me.
When I first got back into the hobby after a 24-year hiatus, I started with a Model A roadster and joined the local Model A clubs. I loved the car, but hated the tours. They toured like circus elephants, nose to tail. If I stopped to take a picture or a pee, the cars behind stopped to help, and the ones in front turned around to help. When they found I had merely stopped for a picture or a pee, they were annoyed. So I sold the A, joined HCCA and the national Model T clubs (there is no local Model T touring club), and have been having a blast ever since.
So, in answer to the OP's question, etiquette depends on the club.
Back when I toured a lot with my Model A, we went on a tour to Bend, OR on hwy 97, a mostly two-lane road, with lots of truck traffic. Now a stock model A will usually develop an engine vibration at around 47 mph, which disappears at about 51 mph, but some of the club members would get to that vibration point and back off a bit. Drove me crazy! (not a long drive even back then). We would then be a traffic obstacle for the truckers, who, more than once, forced me off the road. I've always assumed that vibration is related to the engine design and RPMs.
I think that, most of the time, you need to drive at whatever speed your car and you feel comfortable.
Here in Southern California we have a lot of traffic. Our rule, however, not always followed is to spread out so that the passing cars have room between T's to pull back into the lane. We also pull over to let fast cars pass when safe to do so.
The only problems I personally have are when going up a hill I like to keep moving until I get to the top, because if I stop to let someone pass, I will be in low the rest of the way up and that makes me even slower than I was before I pulled over. The other one which I don't like is when there is a limited slow moving vehicle lane or spot to pull over and I like to keep moving so that I don't lose speed on a hill. When I pull into the slow moving vehicle lane, the car behind me pulls alongside and slows down either to talk or take pictures. That leaves me no more room in the lane and I have to stop.
Anyway, we try to take the less traveled roads as much as possible.
On our tours, some folks like to get up and get going at the crack of dawn, and some others of us like to sleep in. Some drive 30, some 35, and some like to go much faster. No problem with passing in our club; drive whatever speed you like. We all get to the same place at the end of the day.
I hope Rob chimes in on this. I have the pleasure of seeing and hearing that big 6-40 roar past me a couple of times on every tour that we're on together. It never bothers me at all.
I will pass any car as soon as I can if it is polluting so much that it makes me sick.
Otherwise; what Royce said.
It only becomes a question of poor etiquette when it's done with "attitude" or unsafely. Wait till it's totally safe, and as you pass, give a smile or friendly waive at the people in the being passed.
I'll only pass if the car ahead is going way slower, and then only if I'm aware that we're far from the next scheduled stop. Otherwise, I just wait it out and be sure to leave the stop before the slow car does.
Haha, I'm a bit "whatever" about the whole thing. I have yet to go on a tour where my speedster wouldn't blow past anyone else's car like it was standing still. So I don't care if someone passes me. At the same time I can just ride wherever as fast or slow as anyone else so it doesn't bother me if a car ahead is struggling with a hill. I guess I can see how it's frustrating if you have a heavy car and need to keep momentum for a hill but the people in front are slow.
I figure as long as people are passing safely then I'm happy to let everyone ride whenever they want. Most folks are entirely too high strung and get their panties in a twist over silly stuff. If I have to downshift, so what. I'm easy. I don't mind going 20 mph with everyone or if we get on the highway I can go 70. Life's too short to be annoyed WHILE you're riding in a T!
I totally agree with Seth's position on this!!
Seth, I remember when I could go fast. Thanks!
If you are struggling on a hill and you catch up with someone going slower you usually can't pass them. It can be frustrating.
I echo the "Safety First" and I don't mind being passed. If you have that much Power then more Power to you.
"The problem with common sense is that it isn't that common!" Still a good rule to recognize, and drive defensively.
Cocky Spokanistan humor?
The vulture wagon needs to be the last vehicle. It needs prominent flashing yellow lights and a sign that says caution antique cars ahead.
An Endurance run is always interestering considering many of the cars are fast and yet you don't want to finish too soon. Typically on hills you have faster speedsters passing the slower speedsters. Then later you may find those same people killing time taking in some ice cream. I enjoy following another car provided I don't get held up on the hills requiring me to downshift. Of course on one endurance run there was this bugatti that I just followed cause I liked the noise and view.
Humor in Spokanistan ? Since when ?!
Chadwick A! One Endurance Run, I played leapfrog with that Bugatti for at least fifty miles, and loved it! What a noise that thing made!
Some years earlier, I went on a horseless carriage club tour. I was driving the '15 Studebaker touring I used to have. It had the slightly improved 355 cubic inch six cylinder, and being the mid '15, was a couple hundred pounds lighter than the earlier '15s and '14 Studebaker. That thing could go up a hill! We were touring through some of the canyons behind Mount Hamilton (same roads the Endurance Runs sometimes used). I passed a few cars, but mostly I like to follow behind and watch and listen to the car ahead of me. Well, some friends had decided that the Pope Hartford Portola roadster needed a good outing (Chad, I think you know this car?!) At any rate. I was following a good distance behind a couple big Buicks and a White steam car, when that fantastic Pope rumbled up along my side, and then just kept on going. He passed the next car, and the next car and beyond. What a wonderful sound it made wandering off farther into the distance.
I don't mind at all if other cars pass me! And I always watch for them and try to make it easy for them.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I find that if printed directions are included or a Google map link is provided at the beginning of the tour, people don't bunch up as much because there is less fear of getting lost.
I moved a lot of farm equipment in my college days working for a custom harvester. My boss never ever looked back to see if everyone was behind him until we got to the next field. Some I learned from that experience to always get an address or something from him before we left just to cover my rear end.
I've been on plenty of tours that had lousy directions, but I've never been on one that had no directions at all!
If its the Pope I'm thinking of it must be green in color and often visible at "tech inspection"
That is the one! Incredible car!
I agree with Seth. I really like to follow another faster car but it really depends on the road.
Hey, As Ralph Ricks always said, "A Fast car can always go Slow, A Slow car can't go Fast" It never bothers me to be passed up but I usually try to then leave with them cause it's nice for like cars to drive together.
Now you won't have to worry about any passing on this years Glacier Road to the Sun tour.... hee hee
This thread is really enlightening to me. I am a first time T owner and have not participated in a tour or run of any kind. But what I am hearing about here and what I envisioned are day and night.
My military vehicle club has convoys from event to event and the rules are pretty strict. Buddy system, similar speed vehicles bunched together, radio or cell phone contact from group leaders to other group leaders, chase cars, support vehicles, and a tail end Charlie who makes sure everyone is accounted for or safe.
The T guys sound like meet for breakfast and maybe we'll see you for dinner. Maybe not...
Hi Gil and others,
Our club does have tours with directions and I have been on tours with no printed directions. Our club calls them "Follow Me" tours. We are told the destination, lunch stop, and the obligatory ice cream stop, but not every twist and turn. Oh, we sorta, kinda, know know "how to get there", but not the exact route.
Well, as you might imagine, some folks don't want to get separated from the pack and they work hard at staying close on the heels of the car ahead.
Now, before I get further into what I hope doesn't become a rant (some of my fellow club members could/will read this), I must state that we have an unwritten rule that we keep the car behind in our view. If that car should disappear from the mirror for more than a couple of minutes we pull over and wait for him/her. If the car doesn't appear we turn back and search. We don't tour with a trouble truck. Most of us have cell phones but in some parts of rural mountainous New Hampshire the cell service can be spotty. We leave no one behind.
This works pretty well in open areas where there is a long view ahead and behind as cars can spread out. I do relish seeing old cars in front and in back of my car.
When the cars bunch up and we encounter a hill, the different levels of automotive performance and an operator's skill at engine management are on display for all to see and, possibly, endure. Some cars are proficient hill climbers, others less so. Woe is you if your car climbs hills spritely but you are behind a "crawler" and passing is not an option.
Now, lest some readers start to infer that I am a Speed Demon I will state that I am not and that I do savor a slow plod on a rural back road.
I prefer to leave a lot of distance between me and the car ahead, for safe braking, and that "cushion" may allow me to follow them up a hill without having to drop into Low gear or pass them. Passing is not often (really, almost never) an option and being forced to downshift by slower traffic is discouraging, especially when the spark and throttle are set "just so", the engine is in it's "sweet spot", and the old girl is just walking up that hill like nobody's business and I'm getting closer and closer to the car ahead. And then that car drops into Low. Drat, Botheration, and Heavens To Murgatroid!
It is not always possible to travel with cars of similar capabilities, so you just make the best of that. I do like touring with a group. Have fun and be safe. Bill
Thanks for all your responses. Our local club is evaluating how we participate in the community, the topic of types of tours came up, and then led to the discussion of how to tour, speeds of tours, types of cars on tour, etc. The passing issue is one I thought about after the meeting. Is it okay for a multi geared speedster to pass a fully loaded Fordor sedan just for the sake of passing or should they be kept in tow.
I am an advocate of driving your comfort speed. My T runs well while touring, and I dislike trying to chug up hills. I often pass the group when I know/see a hill coming so I can charge the hill (just for an example). I'm glad to see the hobby as a whole seems to have no issues with this type of driving.
If people aren't happy with how things are going they will complain or not tour.
Our T is completely stock and a good runner, but not a speed demon and neither am I. I tend to tour at my own speed which is usually about the group speed. I don't mind getting safely passed, but rarely pass myself. I'm also in the "leave plenty of distance" camp for braking and the unexpected.
At a Model A tour some years ago we got passed by a couple cars in the early morning with some moisture still on the road and the verges. We came around a curve to find both off the road and in a ditch, one having rolled over. Fortunately nobody was seriously injured, but we need to be sensible with our cars too.
Drive fast, tour naked, ..... live like you're dying !