1927 Touring all original high serial number

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: 1927 Touring all original high serial number
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 10:04 am:

A friend called me last night to tell me about his latest T. It's a 1927 touring with all the original paint and original upholstery except the front seat cushion. It even has the original top and side curtains. The car is a pale green with wood demountable wheels and of course black fenders. It even has the remains of original pin striping on it.

The car's serial number is 14,800,XXX. Anyone got a higher engine number? This car was reportedly the last Model T sold in Denton, Texas by that dealer. The car has been in the possession of the original family since new. It was in a tumble down garage that was about to fall over until yesterday.

The car has a vaporizer setup. The gas tank is clean inside. It has 1963 Texas plates and a 1963 inspection sticker. It has been stored inside since it was last driven in '63.

I plan to get photos tomorrow. If anyone wants pictures of anything in particular let me know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 10:24 am:

The last T was on June 1, so March 15 is pretty close. But in those ten weeks they made 200,000 cars, so I expect there are others.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Blake, Kansas City on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 10:25 am:

Wow, what a find. A car like that would be a dream come true for me.

I can't readily lay my hands on the full SN of my 27 Tudor but it's a May 27 car with a number of 14,9xx,xxx. The one you are profiling looks to be March/April built.

I'm looking forward to seeing the photos.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Blake, Kansas City on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 10:38 am:

Ok went down to the fire safe for the title. My 27's SN is 14,951,639.

Steve. When you cite an exact day are you just dividing that months production total by the working days in that month for a daily rate and then multiplying? Or is there another source for the day?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 10:40 am:

My '27 touring was built the last week of March.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cris Irvin on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 11:04 am:

My 27 tudor is 14974523, believe to be a May 17 build date.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Allen on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 11:07 am:

How cool. Can't wait to see photos.

I went to college in Denton and am familiar with the town. Roughly where was the car located?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 11:29 am:

Don,

I will find out. Still wondering about the pin striping if it was original or done by the dealer. I don't recall ever seeing any pin striping on a late touring before.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Warren on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 11:49 am:

I have a 27 block # 14,915,XXX


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 12:23 pm:

I don't claim to be an expert, but I thought only brass T's up to about 1913, had factory pin stripping. My Grandfather's 1927 coupe was pin stripped before I recently repainted it, but I had the pin stripe applied in the sixties.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 12:35 pm:

Pin stripes on the open cars that are color pyroxylin painted in calendar year 1927 are factory.

Both runabout and touring have stripes.

Factory Literature





15th million



Note the small thin pinstripe

Original Gunmetal Blue painted runabout:





Thin crème pin stripe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 12:57 pm:

My roadster is 14816xxx, I usually put up a sign that says any "Real" model T is probably older than her!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 01:07 pm:

Gary, Bruce McCalley's encyclopedia lists engine serial numbers by day. The truncated online version lists them only by month. Info on the encyclopedia, complete and with many extras, is here: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 01:15 pm:

I should have told Gary that the encyclopedia lists his serial number on May 10.

Cris is correct about his May 17 date.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 03:21 pm:

I've got original Ford ads for 1927 cars, but never looked that close to see a pin strip. I've learned something new today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Perkins / St. Croix Valley Mn on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 04:16 pm:

I had a ''27 Tudor # 14988xxx which was all original. It was faded pale green (no pinstripe), had the vaporizer and wire wheels. Sold it to a chap on the west coast.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Peterson on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 04:45 pm:

HI, I have an all original late 1927 Touring with all original interior and paint, with original pin stripe, Royce you have seen it at my place. The Pheonix brown and orange pinstripe are all original. The striping is more orange than it looks in the pix. Note the later 27 tourings had no buttons on the interior. # 14,8xx,xxx. The 1927 roadster pickup is all original paint, no stripe. #14,965,674.

I also have a 1914 touring with all original paint and interior and a 1925 coupe with all original paint, interior and top. If anyone needs any reference info on these let me know, Thanks, Bob.

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 05:48 pm:

Hey Bob, that's an impressive collection of well preserved, probably low mileage cars :-)
Does any of them have original speedometers with mileage?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Peterson on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 07:19 pm:

The 14 touring has 4478 miles, the rest I do not know. All 4 cars are original local Minnesota cars. The 14 Floor mat is original white mat. Some say it is not supposed to be white, but it is. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phillip Maurici on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 07:54 pm:

My 27 T was made April 14, 1927 ser. #14858984. It is a touring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 08:24 pm:

Bob, I would like to see any pictures of the top and interior on the '25 coupe. Many thanks, Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Peterson on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 09:01 pm:

Hi Dave, I will get you some pix tomorrow, I have all the histories since new on all 4 cars. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 09:53 pm:

My car is not as impressively late as the cars listed. On March 3 Rusty will be 90 years young. 14,773,839

There are a few flecks of original commercial green but no trace of a stripe.

See the pinstripe.?



Maybe you can tell if there is a pinstripe by looking at a photo of this car taken in 1927!



I wonder if any of you readers have a photograph of your car taken in the year it was built?

:^) TH


(Message edited by Thorlick on February 05, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 10:47 pm:

Bob speaks the truth his 14 is incredible and yes the floor mat is original and white.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 01:00 am:

Thanks Bob. That will be very interesting. I have a "mostly" original '25 coupe. It was painted (farmer paint job), rewired, had an interior kit installed, and a new top put on in the early 60's, everything else is pretty much original, still has 90 year old grease, oil, and dirt underneath it. :-) It will be nice to see an original. It was assembled at the Kansas City branch plant, so it is still pretty close to home. Thanks again, Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Allen on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 06:42 am:

Wow Bob. Those cars make me all weak in the knees!

My favorite type of car.

I have a 66 F100 short box that looks like your 27 and it draws a crowd wherever it goes. There's something about an old car wearing its factory paint that makes it special.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 08:31 am:

For Royce,

Yes, please look to see if there is an Assembly Number and/or date on one of the metal channels supporting the front floorboards. You may need to lift up the floor mat to see the channels but you do not need to remove the floorboards as the number was stamped on the flat upper part of the metal channel. If a date is also stamped there, that should be the date the body was assembled to the chassis.

In one case the letter and number was not too far from the starter button but it did not have a date with it.

Not all cars had an assembly plant number stamped onto them. The 1926-27 Canadian and Australian cars often have the number and in their case it was stamped on the firewall about an inch below the radiator rod on the engine side. But on USA bodies – I have not heard of any assembly number stamped on the firewall – just on the front floorboard metal channels. And then not consistently.

For the Model A Fords, Ford USA usually had an assembly number indicating if the car was assembled at a branch or at the main River Rouge Plant. For the 1928-1931 Model A information see Dave Sturges’ excellent listing at: http://www.mafca.com/data_assembly.html which is on the Model A Ford Club of America web site. It has the introduction on that page and a link to download the PDF version of the listing at: http://www.mafca.com/downloads/Technical/Assembly%20Plants%20Body%20Number.pdf We have been trying to work back in time from Dave Sturges’ Model A Ford work to try and figure out the Model T branch plant assembly numbers. The oldest one I know of was 1925, but the majority of cars I have information on so far, do not have one.

If you find a branch assembly number and/or letter or date – please let us know.

For anyone that would like an explanation of why I believe a 1926-27 would most likely not have been assembled on the date listed in Bruce’s daily engine serial number log please see the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/722800.html?1486387604

For All – beautiful Fords! I’m so glad they have been kept in the original condition for future generations to be able to see them also. Again, great information and thank you to all who are helping us preserve the history of our cars.


Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Peterson on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 09:16 am:

Dave, Here are the pix of the 1925 Coupe interior, top, and original receipt and original owners on an early road trip. Thanks again to Roger for selling me this car, Bob.

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 09:29 am:

Hap,

Great information. I wish you could stick to Model T Fords though. Mentioning Model A Fords does not strengthen your presentation, it just dilutes it.

I imagine this car came from the local Dallas assembly plant on East Grand avenue, which replaced the earlier Ford assembly plant located downtown in 1925.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 11:01 am:

I saw a 26 or 27 touring once with the original green paint, and it had a orange pinstripe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 12:54 pm:

Bob, thanks so much for those pictures, they cleared up some questions I had. Thanks again. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 01:28 pm:

Hi Bob,

Those are great pictures of your coupe. I am surprised by the dome light as I had always believed what I have read that only the four door sedan came from the factory with a dome light. Where is the on/off switch for that lamp? Wonderful condition of the upholstery and headliner. Thanks for posting. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Peterson on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 02:36 pm:

Hi Bill, If you look at the receipt from the dealer you will see $106 prep charge. The Total is $612. I think the dealer installed some of the options, bumpers, dome light, front fender brace, spotlight, 1/4 window shades, speedometer. It also has other options maybe put on later, tool box, gas-oil-water cans. foot accelerator, Exhaust cutout, anti-shimmy device, optional grease cups. Bob.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 03:27 pm:

Hi Bob,

Hmm, well, that would make sense. Thank you, and again, a beautiful car. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 07:05 pm:

Here are a couple pictures from today:










Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 07:42 pm:

Couldn't find the radiator or the hood in the garage. The smell of rodent poo is overpowering, there was a stiff breeze today but you could still smell it at 50 feet from upwind.



The front seat upholstery had been redone in an attractive 1950's vinyl selection.





Someone had done some repair work about ten years ago, including restoring the wheels and installing a set of Universal white wall tires, plus some work on the front axle, tie rod and pittman arm.

Check out the neat accessory fan belt guide:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 07:47 pm:



Nickel plating is still visible on the head bolts.






Look at the patch where the bolt holes cracked out of the rear fender tail lamp bracket area:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 07:51 pm:

Most of the factory tools were present including the original screwdriver and multiple sets of tire irons.




The side curtains were all there. The clear plastic had mostly rotted away leaving this mesh looking stuff?




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 07:57 pm:

Forgot to mention, in the photo above showing the windshield they must have got cold one winter and decided to try and seal the gap between the two windows where there is normally a strip of rubber. You are looking at two strips of wood with nails passing between the panes to hold the two together.





The 1963 Texas plates are in mint condition, a pair.



Lots of other interesting T stuff was in and around the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 08:00 pm:

Guess what this is:



This radiator cap was with the car. It's had some serious backyard engineering, perhaps to try to cure overheating with no investment of funds. The flutes were trimmed off leaving openings, then there was a sort of patch installed with a big door lock handle knob on top holding everything together.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 08:06 pm:

A fair number of spark plugs, including a set of Champion X Ford script:



This pair of anti - rattlers was with the car marked "Burdette L" "Burdette R" and "Patent Pend"




The beginnings of a dash lamp collection:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 08:08 pm:

Serial number 14,885,271




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 08:12 pm:

The touring has some interesting stable mates. This is Buford, an unrestored '27 pickup:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 08:14 pm:

This '27 roadster is going to be for sale at Chickasha this year:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 08:16 pm:

You don't see many '26 Chrysler four cylinder coupes these days. Especially not in good unrestored condition with most of the original paint:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 08:16 pm:

Royce:

Do you know if it came with a ratchet type (pressed steel) flip top jack? Did the flip top portion have a hole through it?

Also could you take a picture of the front door inside panel. Does this panel have a separate bead of material around its perimeter?

One other thing that has me baffled is the slotted head screw in the windshield post! Is it on both sides? The reason I question it is I have seen another late 1927 touring with the slotted head screw in the same place. The first one I thought was just a replacement, but now that I see another one with a slotted head in the same place, I wonder if this is more than a coincidence!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 08:23 pm:

Arnie,

There was not any material around the edges of the door panels. They are painted cardboard.

The slotted screw heads are correct of every '27 open car. One on each side.

I did not see a jack.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tim moore, "Island City" MI on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 08:25 pm:

Royce and all;

Did the cars ever come with from the factory with "check straps" on the doors? I have some and not some on cars but it seems not good to have doors fly open all the way around like a screen door in the wind.

Tim Moore


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tim moore, "Island City" MI on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 08:37 pm:

Rare '26-27 spare tire carrier mounted on the running board but it is on the wrong side! In that location the driver has to fight the hand brake and the passenger can't open the door if the wheel is in place. Looks like a factory roadster PU with the filler plates between the box and body.

Somebody got themselves boxed right into that truck with difficult exit.

Tim Moore


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Allen on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 08:57 pm:

What a great group of cars. Thanks for sharing the photos.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By arnie johansen on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 09:23 pm:

Royce:

This brings up a new point for the judging guidelines for the 1927 open vehicles. That is, the windshield post is mounted to the body with one of the three fasteners being a slotted head screw! Can we say the slotted head fastener is in the upper right position when when viewing each side of the vehicle head on?

Do you know if it was for both the touring, runabout and pick-up trucks?

Do you know the purpose of the use of the slotted head screw in that position? For example, is it possible that the slotted head screw was a replacement when a side curtain had a fastener that mounted on a clip that was under that screw head itself? (your picture does not show this, but I thought I would ask)

Any documentation available that would aid it this fact being incorporated in the guidelines?

The more I look the less I know!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 09:29 pm:

Arnie I think Dan Treace or Donnie Brown might know. Every original 26 - 27 open car that I have seen has that screw in the lower rear position.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 09:47 pm:

Should have said upper rear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 11:20 pm:

The mystery object looks like a battery cell cap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Rodell, Sr.- Wisconsin on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 12:17 am:

I have a 1926 Touring, and I mounted my windshield stations with 3 carriage bolts on each side, because the holes are punched square to accept the carriage bolts. It is difficult to get a lock washer and turn the nut on that upper location. It would be much easier installing a slotted stove bolt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 12:20 am:

Royce, the plastic/mesh material on the side curtains looks like "Warp's Flexo-Glass", made by Harold Warp, the founder of Pioneer Village in Minden NE. That product was mainly used to cover windows in your house to help keep out the cold, same as the clear plastic that is used today. He also made a screen type material that was punched out of very thin sheet metal. It looked a lot like thousands of very tiny louvers. It was used as screen wire was used, but I don't recall the name of it right now. I remember the plastic stuff was used a lot around here in the '50s and '60s, most every lumber yard and hardware store sold it and the metal screen. When it was left on the windows too long, it weathered just like the stuff on the side curtains. If I recall correctly, Harold invented the machines to manufacture these products. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 12:35 am:

Warp's Flexo-Glass has no mesh. However, Warp's Glass-Weave does.

http://www.warpbros.com/detail.asp?section=windows&cat=glass-weave&product=26

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Rodell, Sr.- Wisconsin on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 12:48 am:

An observation that I have noticed on the two original 1927 tourings..........
Look at the doors on the touring that Royce posted. On each door, there is a body socket for a fastener to secure the lower rear corner of a side curtain.

On the photos of Bob Peterson's touring, there are no body sockets on each door to accept the curtain fastener.

Both cars have serial numbers 14,8xx,xxx.

Also, Ford Model T #15,000,000 has the body sockets, as shown.

I know my 1926 body does not have the sockets on each door, but when did they start?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 01:29 am:

Thanks for that Erik. It's been over fifty years since I saw any of Warp's products, in fact, I didn't even know they were still in business. Dave


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