5 millionth Model T...a '22 coupe....the handles??

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: 5 millionth Model T...a '22 coupe....the handles??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Cicciarelli on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 10:41 pm:

Where are the various milestone Model T's? 5 millionth, 10 millionth etc etc?

Just noticing an odd detail on the 5 millionth. Suppose to have been built May of 1921. It has the bail style door knobs. It is my understanding that the MTFCI ​Judging Guidelines book states that 1920 and earlier had the bail handles, 1921 had the T-handles, and 1922 and later had the L-handles. Anyone care to comment?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 10:51 pm:

It's unlikely it's the same car Ford advertised as the five millionth, too many doubts for that..
Here's an earlier discussion that goes into details: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/27323.html?1175886196


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 11:02 pm:

By late 1926, when Ford began to realize the Model T was by the end of its run, he may have had a minor depression and ordered some milestone engines to be given new numbers and sent out to customers..

http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc26.htm

NOV 18 (1926) Engine production records, Ford Archives
"Motor numbers ground off and replacement numbers: 10,000,000 to 14,548,000; 12,000,000 to 14,546,000; and 13,000,000 to 14,549,000."

The 15 millionth T Touring went straight to the museum and stays there, unfortunately repainted and with new tires reducing its value for us who would have loved to see it just as it came off the assembly line.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 01:25 pm:

I had the opportunity to really inspect this car when it was available for preview before its being auctioned off in Detroit, many years ago. There many things "not right" about the car. Unfortunately, that was many years ago, so I don't remember everything. At the time, it had the wrong engine pan, (narrow snout, too early). Also, I seem to remember something about the rear fenders not matching each other. Shortly after, it was purchased by Dick Duncan, a local Ford dealer who had a very nice museum. His guy corrected a lot of the "problems", from a list I gave him, plus the input of a few others. It's current appearance, I believe, is the result of that restoration. The is definitely stamped 5,000,000 though it looked a little odd at the time. (Again, can't remember the details of exactly why it looked odd.) I also seem to recall that the fenders, running boards and aprons all looked like they cam from different cars due to some of them appearing to have been very rusty at some time, while others appeared to be from new-old-stock.

Where is it now?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 01:40 pm:

I think this statement from the other thread is what seals the verdict that the coupe is a copy, not the real thing:

"By Jerome Hoffman on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 03:02 pm:
Having seen the Ford factory photos for engine #5,000,000 in the Benson Ford Resurch Center just 3 days after seeing this car at Jerome Duncan's museum. I can state that the block in the car has the number 5,000,000 but is not the block stamped and photographed in the 1921 photos from Ford."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 05:14 pm:

I know of at least two other "five millionth" model T's. One in Nebraska.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn - Lincoln, NE on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 07:13 pm:

The car in the photo above is in Lincoln, NE at the Museum of American Speed owned by the Smith Collection. It was also on display at the Centennial in Richmond.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 08:49 am:

Thank you Mike.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 12:06 pm:

I agree that the picture was in the Smith Museum in August 2014 and below is a picture of the motor engine number.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 01:36 pm:

With a 1926 horn bracket no less...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 02:33 pm:

Something about that number pad doesn't look right to me??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 02:44 pm:

David - I think it's more or less "highlighted" because it's the 5 millionth Model T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 04:12 pm:

Harold, I was thinking more about the shape of it, but I could be wrong!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 04:31 pm:

David,

As I mentioned above, I had the same "not-quite-right" feeling about it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 05:05 pm:

David & Jerry:

Well, you guys are right! (.....that's not as bad as when my wife is "right",....I hate that,....but almost as bad,....(:^),....ha,ha,....)

Anyway, as long as my '27 depot hack w/correct engine, and my '23 roadster pickup w/correct engine, are both sitting here in my carport, I checked!

The shape of the number pad on the '27 looks exactly the same shape as on the 5 millionth. However, the shape of the pad on the '23 is about the same length, front to back, but the top to bottom width of the raised pad is much thinner. Kinda' the rectangular size and shape of the smaller than normal sized band-aid that we're all used to.

So there,....for what it's worth,......and frankly, if it wasn't that we have such horrible driving conditions (at least for Seattle) and the fact that I haven't left the house for two days now, I probably wouldn't have bothered to check! Not really a very important detail to me, considering that I almost never have all four of the T's and the Model A all running at the same time! (Whew!)

You know, now that I think about it, that makes sense. Some time between '23 and '27, the pattern makers probably just found one more little detail to simplify the design of one of the the engine block casting patterns to further simplify the actual casting of the block in the foundry. And that's what ol' Henry and "the boys" at the drawing boards were all about, right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Matthiesen on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 06:41 pm:

Sometime in 1923 the engine block casting cores were modified to remove the Ford Made In USA from the side of the block. At the same time the block casting date was removed and the engine number boss was changed to connect with the water inlet boss making it more square.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 07:12 pm:

I've had a photo of the car manufactured just before the five millionth Ford T hanging on the wall for years. I had never seen a photo of a five millionth car until now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays Kansas on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 10:56 pm:

I too have seen the car, both at the Smith Museum and when the previous owner had it. The car's engine is in deed stamped 5,000,000 and is not the same engine Ford put in the car back in 1921. I have been to the Benson Ford and have located the factory pictures of the assembled engine and the block has the casting FORD on the side like we would think most 1921 blocks should have. The engine in the car pictured at the top of this post has a smooth side to the block under the water inlet. Also, it has 1925 commercial fenders on it but that is no big deal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 11:44 pm:

AAAUGH!! I will beat "Original Larry" to this one: There is NO SUCH THING as a "Commercial Fender!" They are just a later version (1925) of the fender.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 01:22 am:

David, I have to agree. For several years I have been looking at old photos of TT's and all them that I have seen that show that part of the fender, have the two beads. I know that they may well have been changed at some time, but so far, at least to my way of thinking, that shows that there wasn't a "commercial" fender. I think that is another of those old myths that got told for so long they are "gospel", much like the "early" and "late" '23's. JMHO Dave


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration