Packing a water pump

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Packing a water pump
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 08:50 am:

I know some will say take the water pump off and throw it away. However my belt is new and fits with the pump on the engine, so the pump stays. It has a slow leak at the packing where the shaft enters the body of the pump and I have tried tightening the nut and slowed the leak, but not stopped it. The pump has no name on it. I'm suppose I can find packing at a hardware store?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 08:57 am:

I've used graphite packing with good results. It's best to completely remove the existing packing, inspect the shaft, then repack. As to inspecting the shaft, if it's pitted and rough, no packing will ever seal it well again. The roughness will continually carve up the packing.

As far as sealing completely, shaft packing should never be expected to do so. In fact, the packing area depends on a small bit of seepage to lubricate and cool the packing. The key word is small. It should not drip on the floor while parked, but some wetness during operation is o.k. and even desirable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 09:18 am:

Good info. Thank You.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 09:49 am:

Just wondering a thought . . .

Ive done a fair bit of marine work and the drip on raw water pumps is a concern. Unlike on a T you are usually dripping salt water in an enclosed near impossible to reach area. I have seen a change to using a seal that simply presses in and does away with the packing all together. The result as you can guess is a leak free pump. I have wondered why wouldn't one use this seal on a T. The most logical reason may be temps, raw water pumps operate at 65-85 degrees at least down here. Cooling water as we know is significantly warmer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 09:49 am:

When i ran a water pump it would tell me when it needed grease with a drip now and then! Everything Jerry said but after the re pack do not keep constantly turning the packing nut,add a little grease! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 10:30 am:

My Suggestions....only. The advise is free so take it for it's worth.
Be sure that the shaft, in the "stuffing box" area, is free of pits and tears on the shaft surface.
First, using a pic, pull out all of the old packing...all of it.
Second,using water bib graphite packing, (Ace Hardware) repack by winding the packing around the shaft, using the "jam nut" to seat the packing. Do this several times to be sure there are no voids in the packing but don't pack so hard that it binds the shaft.
When you first start up the packing may "weep". This would be normal. Using the jam nut slowly seat the packing until the weeping stops, then give it another quarter turn. These old pumps will require occasional "reseating" as the packing wears but that's just the way it is. One thing to be sure of is not to tighten the jam nut till the shaft binds. I check my pump for weeping every time I start the engine and you really should always keep a weary eye out on it. But, regardless of the constant verbiage on pumps, yes and no, they do help to keep the engine running cooler.
Can you run with out a pump? Of course you can. But down here in Texas where 99 degrees id just warm in the winter, I want all the help I can get to keep thing under control. For what it's worth.....Jerry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 11:25 am:

You might try a parts house which stocks Model A parts. The Model A came from the factory with a water pump. The shaft appears to be close in diameter to an after market Model T pump.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 03:59 pm:

Work some red bearing grease into your graphited new packing. The graphited packing alone is likely to drip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 03:59 pm:

Tommy: I went down to the auto store and a fellow behind the counter found me a rubber sealed gasket that worked without any leaks. He spent about 45 minutes looking for a 45 cent item that would fit. He was very helpful. This has been awhile ago; but I think it was metal with an inner rubber gasket that went over the shaft??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 05:14 pm:

I was going to suggest packing the pump off to the dump, but y'all's being far too serious about it, and are providing very good advice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 06:16 pm:

Ted is right......Jerry. Chuck, can you give us some more info on the gasket? Thanks, Jerry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 07:33 pm:

Ted is right......Jerry. Chuck, can you give us some more info on the gasket? Thanks, Jerry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 03:12 am:

Chadwick, you are thinking of the ceramic type seals that are commonly used in modern industrial type pumps. They would sure work good in a T if you could find one that could be made to fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 05:02 am:

I have flat tube radiators on both of my T's, both are old era correct and I have had NO problems with overheating. Trust me, I have tested them both in 95 degree+ plus heat in parades, driving on the highway at speed (?) plus plowing through mud cutting six inch deep ruts(long story, I didn't intend to do that) and they worked great. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't use a flat tube radiator, unless they have a show car. As far as I am concerned, water pumps are just a band aid that isn't needed. New radiators are expensive, but so is trying to make an old radiator work. By the time that you have tried to have an old radiator boiled out, leaks fixed at least once, then maybe another time, (Just ask Dallas how that worked out for him:-), or have a new core installed, buy a water pump and longer belt, you have a heck of a good start on a new radiator,(not counting brass ones). Used ones are out there if you look. JMHO Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 05:08 am:

Also, in a past life, I worked in a lead recycling plant that used a LOT of water pumps. They ALWAYS leaked, packing type seals or mechanical type seals, sooner or later. Mostly sooner. :-( Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 09:22 am:

Wow, all of that work to save the price of a belt? I guess my time is worth more than that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 09:43 am:

Yeah, it's a big job to wrap some packing around that shaft and tighten that nut. I don't know if I can handle all that work in one day. Might have to split it up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roy Mathis, Van Buren, AR on Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 02:15 pm:

I don't recall ever hearing of a landfill requiring packing but I suppose styrofoam peanuts or bubble wrap in the box would be OK. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 10:45 am:

Jerry: I had a water pump on 1923 touring. Took the pump off and tried to run the car w/o a water pump. It kept heating up; so radiator was not functioning well; so cheaper route was to put the pump back on. I checked my old photo files and do not have any photos of the seal. But it seemed to work; have since sold the T. Lesson: Tís with a water pump usually have a poorly functioning radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 01:56 pm:

Tommy,

Do yourself a favor. Toss the pump in the trash and learn what you are not missing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 02:17 pm:

There now, that seems to be everybody...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 02:41 pm:

Seems a lot of these pumps leak. The one that WAS on my car never leaked. My conscience won't allow me to sell it to anyone though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 03:46 pm:

Anybody got a spare inlet?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 07:00 pm:

Tommy: so if you trash the pump, how old/new is your radiator? You may need a new radiator if you donít use the water pump.

Chuck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 09:49 pm:

That wont happen. A new radiator is not in the budget and probably wont be in the future.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 10:02 pm:

Gene-
I am not refering to the ceramic seals, Im refering to the rubber coated steel (I'm assuming) that has been used as a replacement for the ceramic seals. I'll see what info I can scrounge when I get the time including a part number. If memory serves the shaft diameter is either 1/2 or 5/8.

If I run a water pump (will determine what radiator I find) I will be using one of these seals behind a modern sealed bearing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Friday, February 10, 2017 - 10:28 am:

The original pump on my 27 had a wear grove about 3/32" so I replaced the shaft with a 1/2" stainless rod. The impeller and pulley came off relatively easy. I had some original packing string that my father-in-law used on locomotives. I wrapped it around the shaft and lightly tamped it with a piece of hardwood until the cavity was nearly full (you need enough thread for the packing nut). The nut should be tightened as needed but not over tight. Packing string may not be so common, I don't know, I have never bought any.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, February 10, 2017 - 12:55 pm:

I've been told that stainless steel will gall, so it's not good for a "standard" water pump shaft (that is one using a bronze bushing and a packing gland).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Friday, February 10, 2017 - 01:16 pm:

The only thing that wouldn't gall would be case hardened I guess.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ALAN FAIRCLOUGH from Houston, TEXAS on Friday, February 10, 2017 - 01:36 pm:

Drips are normal.
the casing should have a drain hole in the bottom below the shaft. I tapped the hole and installed a nipple and a hose that channels the drips down to the road instead of messing up the rubber hose and clamps of the inlet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 09:56 pm:

I bought some faucet packing today at the hardware store. It seems to have fixed the leak.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JD, Wichita, KS on Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 12:18 am:

Red grease was mentioned above which is probably fine.
I like waterproof plumbers grease. Maybe it's silicone based? Anyway a little bit of something will probably help the packing last longer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 12:46 am:

I like the idea of no pump but hey if you need it and the pump to keep her going and cool, I say pack it and ride.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 06:40 am:

David D., stainless steel can/will gall, usually when bolts and nuts are used without some kind of lube. I don't think there would be a problem with galling on a pump shaft, we never had any problem with that where I worked in a past life. JMHO Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, February 12, 2017 - 08:36 pm:

Dont the venders sell a stainless shaft for the model A? Just a little grease.Bud.


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