Body Nuts & Bolts

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Body Nuts & Bolts
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Stephens - Arnold, CA on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 01:05 pm:

The nuts and bolts someone installed on my roadster body look sooooo wrong. Can anyone point me to documentation as to what the correct nuts and bolts are?

Tom

Body nuts/bolts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 02:19 pm:

Hi Tom. Here is a thread from 2010 that I posted, showing the original bolts, washers and nuts used to secure the body panels together. I hope it helps. Jim Patrick

www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/170189.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 02:39 pm:

The bolt heads that go through the body and show on the outside should be a round headed bolt. They are a little different than a carriage head but real close. Snyders sell them in sets for T's. They are on page T81 of their latest catalog. Its your car but I wouldn't worry to much about the bolts that will be covered by the seats and upholstery. Not sure about the inside body bolts but they were probably square headed nuts and bolts and weren't zine plated.

I used the Snyder tack rail set for my 21 Touring and were duplicate of the few originals I had when I took the car apart to restore.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 02:51 pm:

These seen to be untouched since the factory. Carriage-like bolts and square nuts. I don't see lock washers. 3 earlier bodies but I believe the same type bolts were used later.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 04:46 pm:

The general rule is "carriage bolt, carriage (square) nut." But since yours will be covered by the upholstery, I'd just use a lock washer and go ahead and cover 'em up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gerald Blair on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 06:26 pm:

try this one. Has some information on nut and bolt size

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/711612.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 - 06:48 pm:

The nuts and bolts that are shown in the above pics are like the ones that Snyders sells in their tack rail bolt sets. They were the only supplier for those type of bolts that didn't have the typical carriage head bolts we see today at the hardware stores. I couldn't find them anywhere else at the time. The heads have a more 'chunky' carriage head than the modern ones in my opinion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Stephens - Arnold, CA on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 01:25 am:

Thanks guys! A lot of different ideas on what is correct. I may not have been clear enough, but the nuts and bolts I am referring to are the ones that are behind the seat back that connect the body panels to each other, not the fender to body bolts, even though perhaps they are the same fasteners.

I looked at the link and lists of fasteners, but didn't see any that pertained to the body panels... unless I missed them.

So it sounds like square nuts, but carriage head bolts or hex bolts?

Jim, you show the originals. I wonder if your '26 body panel fasteners were the same as the '24 roadsters?

It does matter to me that the correct fasteners are used, even if hidden.

Tom


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 08:32 am:

If the holes in the panel flanges are square, use carriage bolts. Otherwise use hex bolts or machine screws.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 09:29 am:

I don't know why RV hasn't mentioned this, but he makes a lot of those bolts that you need. A lot of the square nuts for your car are 1/4-20, but are 1/2" across the flats. These are uncommon today, but can be found if you try hard enough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 10:25 am:

Yup; if you try hard enough you can get them from me!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 10:36 am:

Hi Tom. I removed the seat back and the same small head hex bolts and square nuts were used on the body panels holding the rear quarter panels to the rear panel like the location shown in your photo, however, there were no washers on each side like the fenders. Probably because the body panel supports are much thicker than the fenders to splash shields.

I have never seen modern small head bolts like those, so I purchased a box of modern hex head bolts from McMaster-Carr and carefully ground down each of the 6 flat sides of each hex head bolt until it was the size of the original. I also ground off all the modern bolt markings from the head and dipped in muriatic acid and neutralized in a solution of baking soda and water. This, to remove the plating on the bolt, as Ford did not use plated bolts. If you do this be sure to have a heating gun or hair dryer to quick dry the bolts to minimize the formation of surface rust. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 03:00 pm:

It makes sense that Ford used the same bolts and nuts for assembling all the different body panels. Buying several various type bolts for the different body panels on the car would not have made sense to Ford, from a business standpoint, when your talking about the manufacture of millions of cars. It makes much more sense to find one bolt that does the work of many, so Ford only has to buy one size and type. It makes it easier on the assembly line workers too to reach into the bin and know that the bolt you have is the correct one for the job...because its' the only one for the job. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 10:51 am:

Although the inside rear panel on Toms car will be covered with upholstery, the correct bolt for the rear panel is a special 1/4-20 bolt with a tall 3/8 across the flats hex head on it, and a square nut, 1/2" across the flats. Model A's used this bolt for the cowl, and should be available from an 'A' supplier. I believe '26s used this same bolt to mount the tailamp bracket to the fender.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Mills_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 12:25 pm:

Danged Larry...

Although there were no actual firm standards for nuts and bolts until after WW1, (SAE and USS were but a guide with no tolerance control and the ability for any given manufacturer to make oversized or undersized deliberately)and the usage on T's was probably near dictated from early days and carried forward...and at some point Ford reportedly began making their own...

ONE of my sidebar self-inflicted Don Quixote 'projects' was to identify the 'what' and 'why' to Fords selection of fasteners and ironically, I was very, very, very close to actually declaring that Ford from day #1 until rolled threads in 1922-ish used what was called by industry jargon the Carnegie nut and bolt standard and to write up an article on it!!!!

Now you go and advise that there was a special bolt used in body manufacture...one with a high head...which of course is NOT in the (then) accepted 'Carnegie Standard'!

Maybe you can help me here? Are the threads rolled? Is the actual thread length 3/4" with at least a 1/4" non-thread between the top thread and the head? This may then be an exception to my thought/research to date having occurred from 1922 onward?

Thanks for any help.....

(Message edited by george_nj on February 16, 2017)


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